WEBVTT

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joined by two speakers. Our
primary speakers today will be
great Patterson

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coming from EPA's office of
research and development
international risk

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management and research
laboratory.

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>> Is it that you US -- EPA's
water system in Ohio.

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>> Craig became research --
focus on making water
technologies and

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point of entry, use, advanced
oxidation and [ Indiscernible ].

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He received his bachelor science
and master science and
environmental

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engineering for the University
of Cincinnati. Part

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joining EPA, Craig work for an
environmental consulting firm.
Also personal

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engineering the state of Ohio.

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>> Before we launch into Craig's
presentation, we're going to be

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joined by Steve Dyment who is a
technology liaison for EPA
office

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of research and development in
the EPA region office. To
provide some

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background on the project.

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>> I will go ahead and
transition our arrangement here.
And hopefully

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we can now see Steve's screen in
real time,

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I just want to let you know we
can

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see that. And I will turn things
over to Steve to start with that

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introduction.

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>> Great, thank you so much.
Again I am Steve Dyment, I am a
liaison

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for EPA's development originate.

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And among some of things we do
our direct tech support for
Superfund

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sites and water program sites,
Brownfields and other types of

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sites. We also focus on regional
research,

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and that's the subject of
today's talk. And we also work
to connect

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the expertise with the office --
that the office has in the
technical

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support centers and laboratories
to bring that expertise to bear

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on EPA regional projects.

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Research needs. Also working
closely with the state tribal
and local

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partners.

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>> So as to mention today we
will

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be talking about our -- a prayer
project, regional --

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a regional office we conducted
in 2017 and

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finished up a 2018 and the
effectiveness of point of entry
systems to remove

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select Per- and
poly-fluoraoalkyl substances
from drinking water.

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>> Go back in time if you will
to run

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2015 at this time, you may
recall that EPA's drinking water
program

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and the use EMR, the unregulated
contaminants monitoring

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rule, results are starting to
come out, in particular six

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PFAS compounds or that group and
we are beginning to get our arms

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around around some of the
challenges and the nation in
terms of

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frequency recurring us of the
compounds and distribution of
some of that

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contamination. Around the same
time, in 2015/2016. in part as

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a result of some of the sampling
that took place through use EMR

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three, the unregulated
monitoring rule we can
detections of a PFAS

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compound, and coral springs in
the aquifer.

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>> At the time, EPA is heavily
involved, we had a

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team coordinator there.

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Our state partners, cholera
Department of health and
environment, were

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also there. And other folks
involved to take a look at the
map here,

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gives you some idea of just in
current springs in the area of
impact, it

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follows this fountain Creek.
Watershed, if you will.

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To the north are the current
springs invisible airport and
also of note,

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Petersons Air Force -- Air Force
base where we think a lot of the

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foam and things were used. So
it's relatively large area. And

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at the time, residents were
given options of receiving
bottled water,

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surface water was being pumped
up from some of their two

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Pueblo Colorado, surface water
was

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when do with some of those
systems and we began to explore

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ideas for treatments. So we had
involvement from EPA, state, Air

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Force and others. Enter our 2016
rare proposal, working closely
with

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our regional and state partners.

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And we looked at previous work
on point of use systems. There

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had been studies done in the
data desk in the state of
Michigan. Looking

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at interview systems, those are
small systems down, small
gallant

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systems like [ Indiscernible ]
itself for effectiveness and
removal of

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some of the PFAS compounds, and
around that same time in 2015.

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the national foundation was
developing their standard for

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peer you or point of use system
treatment

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options including activated
carbon systems, reverse offices
and others.

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>> As all of this sampling and
delineation is playing out in
sight,

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we are looking to options for
mitigation of the current
problem, potential

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treatment and even down the
horizon for remediation. As all
of this

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is played out, we were getting
questions from folks concerned
about how I

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protect myself now, how do I
limit all my exposures from the

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PFAS compounds that we know are
in the system.

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>> So we turned our focus to the
2017 regional effort project

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with effectiveness of point of
entry systems to remove select
Per-

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and poly-fluoraoalkyl substances
for

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you are.

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>> So from here we're looking at
entry systems. Craig will talk
about

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this in a minute, generally
looking at new technologies like
granular,

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activated carbon, reverse
osmosis.

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And which are on the 2017
timeframe began to

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pop up as potential treatment
options as well as activated
carbon for

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the larger the municipal systems
which we are beginning to come
online

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as well.

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>> Now as Craig Patterson, Jean
introduce Craig

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a little while ago. He is a
engineer with the research lab

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in Cincinnati. At the evaluation
Center. And we teamed up with
trying

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to get access to do the
evaluation Center 5000 gallon
tank and all

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the facilities that Craig has at
his disposal, the idea was
looked

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at that six of the previously
identified PFAS compounds which
have been

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found in the aquifer, the white
security aquifer area,

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had looked at commercially
available activated carbon

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reverse osmosis system and the
potential performance for those

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for point of entry with the
systems.

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>> So here we are now
fast-forward to 2018. We have
our

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-- I will switch to take a look
here. The

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two things I want to mention,
concerns of information about
what is currently

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going on in the Colorado
Department of

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health environment website, and
also the

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El Paso County website, but they
do have interactive maps which I

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am showing here. You can see
some of the impact of the
community,

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those areas with the are
district with the letter S. The
W

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are the Whitefield area.
Fountain areas as well.

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>> So we have a number of
minutes appellees and start wear
heels which

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are currently doing with some
issues.

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In fact we have an August
engagement EPA down their

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current springs are here
testimonial presentations from
various

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activist groups. We get
presentations from the various

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disabilities on the current
treatment efforts and then going
forward and

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how they will be treating some
of the groundwater here. It is
sufficed

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to say that a lot of it is
either treated to

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not detect or blended with
surface water to be well below
EPA advisory

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at 20 ppt for PFAS. And so now
we are in the 2018 we got

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our results. We have the
publications coming out.

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Inhabited to follow-up in terms
of additional research, and I
will

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let [ Indiscernible ] Craig
touch and all that. So I

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will now turn it over to Craig
Peterson and take away. Pete

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>> Thank you Steve.

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>> I am waiting for my screen

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to come out.

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>> And Craig, just letting you
know

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that we can see your content.

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Thank you very much.

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>> I would like to recognize my
coffers. Jonathan Burkart with
US

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EPA in Cincinnati Ohio. Provided
the modeling

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the modeling study.

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Steve Dyment ends the merit.

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You just heard from Steve Dyment
with US EPA.

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And also Larry's Intech and
Danielle Klein Meyer

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with US EPA region five in
Chicago.

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They provided the PFAS analysis.
And

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Radha Krishnan in Donald Shoup
who

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provided EPA with a study from
APTIM in

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Cincinnati Ohio.

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>> You can see the extent of
contamination which Steve Dyment
to show did

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you, and the aquifers within the
watershed.

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>> As Steve

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mentioned, the foam was used to
fight fires

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at the Peterson Air Force Base.

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As of August 2016 a new prodigal
with shorter change follicles is

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-- chain follicles is not being
used. Potential

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impacts of cancer, liver,
thyroid and pancreatic kidney

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infertility problems.

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>> Also initially, the surface
water was being blended

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on the Pueblo reservoir to meet
the health advisory. The results

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of the PCE contamination in the
aquifer. Bottled

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waters stations were set up for
residents

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and water coolers were installed
in homes to provide drinking
water

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sources to residents living in
the Whitefield

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aquifer region. These options
are temporary, you can see
residence

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filling their gallon containers
and using the

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water coolers. But this requires
a lot of effort either residence

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to physically go to the water
station and have these five and
have these

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5 gallon coolers delivered and
we should come up with some

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treatment options that were
spurred on with the research.

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>> So we went in to the

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district to assess the removal
effect is the spec effectiveness
of these

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using commercially available
point of use and point of entry
systems

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for the Whitefield aquifer. We
purchased commercially available

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household water systems back to
treat ability studies and
representative

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test waters. For those of don't
you -- those of you who don't
know

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what point of use is the kitchen
sink, and deposit them

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for three devices are used.
Whereas right of entry systems
our whole

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house systems, typically
installed in the hot water tank
room or in

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a heated garage.

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>> So the project also
documented

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the ease-of-use during
installation, startup,
continuous in a minute

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operation based on many factors
instructions, and also looked at

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operation and maintenance
schedules for replacement of our
own units

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and GAC India. The picture on
the right, you can see

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the components as delivered for
the verbose osmosis system for
installation.

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And the photo on the bottom is a
representative

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of the carbon take. With the
sentiment filters.

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>> We chose to use the

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NSF standard P473.

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This is a draft in 2016. they
only looked at carbon-based

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or Mrs. system.

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For removal below the EPA health
advisory level

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with 70 ppt. That standard adds
1.5

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1.5 mcg/L. Of combination of 1
µg P5 2.5 µg

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PFOA. The water treatment
systems must

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verify that the contaminant
reduction claims are true. The

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system does not have additional
-- anything harmful to the
water.

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System is structurally sound for
labeling and advertising
literature.

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And not be misleading.

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>> We went to the Colorado
Department of Public Health and
environment

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website. As you see here on
slide eight. The maximum

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concentration we found from all
the samplings and analysis
between

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2013 and 2016. we also looked at
the average

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PFAS concentration.

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>> The UCR in three

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PFAS contaminants for the longer
chain of those two shorter

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chains that could be the carbon
chain link for the PF for

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in the PF CS. We also up the

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fee concentration from 200 800
fee concentration from 200 800
ppt to

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keep the ratio with the P4 73
ratio to do one PFAS

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to PFOA for the representative
test

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water.

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>> We looked at the Whitefield
aquifer

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water quality between 1982 in
2016.

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To see if any of the parameters
would actually impact the media

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or reverse offices membranes. We
combine

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those results with the P4 73
requirements and

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with a list shown on slide 11.
for REO we are looking at 25°

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per GAC.

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We added TOC to the GSE test
water to greater

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1 mg of water, and dehydrated
natural organic matter. And PDF

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to both the Aro and GC water, to
5 mg/L. And then we

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added 300 mg And then we added
300 mg/L of hardness to the REO
test

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water as --

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>> Is a mentioned with the
analysis,

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standard operating received your
as

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a holding time of 28 days.

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We provided 15 mL polypropylene
containers

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in triplicate. We also did a lot
of the water quality parameters

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in the test evaluations facility
in Ohio for the TOC TBS

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turbidity and hardness. We
analyzed for the temperature

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immediately.

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>> This slide on slide 13 shows
our

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feedwater results. On the left
side of the slide you can

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see the 5000 gallon tanks that
has the information facility. In
the

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5000 -- at 5 gallon drum for the
study. We did a

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stability test before the actual
test if we are within range at
the

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proper trillion PFAS contaminant
levels. Unfortunately we did

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the PFAS calculation -- was only
10% of what

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was required and the PFAS came
in is not detected. So

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we change the calculation, found
a new source for the PFAS, and

344
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:57.067
our feedwater concentration were
within range of

345
00:16:57.067 --> 00:16:58.067
the target.

346
00:16:58.067 --> 00:17:03.067
>> We did the same for the water
quality results. For the tedious

347
00:17:03.067 --> 00:17:08.067
and hardness on the Aro test.
Water quality. And the tedious
and the

348
00:17:08.067 --> 00:17:11.067
TOC for the GAC test water
quality.

349
00:17:11.067 --> 00:17:16.067
>> On-site 15 you can see three
commercially

350
00:17:16.067 --> 00:17:22.067
available systems that we tested
-- Aro

351
00:17:22.067 --> 00:17:27.000
system. The ice spring to the
left.

352
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:32.000
The hydrologic in the center and
the flex eon on the right.

353
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:36.000
These are really between point
of use and point of entry.
Ranging

354
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:42.000
from flow from.3 gallons per
minute to.7 talents per minute.

355
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.000
And I just wanted to point out
the RS

356
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.000
system specifications on slide
16.

357
00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:55.067
The ice spring Aro system has

358
00:17:55.067 --> 00:18:00.067
one post filter in addition to
Aro membrane, the hydrologic

359
00:18:00.067 --> 00:18:06.067
evolution has one prefilter with
two Aro membranes

360
00:18:06.067 --> 00:18:09.067
and the flex eon has to
prefilter's and

361
00:18:09.067 --> 00:18:12.067
one post filter with two Aro
membranes.

362
00:18:12.067 --> 00:18:16.067
>> One of the issues with our
systems

363
00:18:16.067 --> 00:18:21.067
are they create a lot of priest
-- of wastewater. As you can see

364
00:18:21.067 --> 00:18:26.067
half of the water that was used
for treatment when away as
wastewater

365
00:18:26.067 --> 00:18:32.000
into the septic system or the
sewer if available. And

366
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.000
the flex eon actually had 60% of
the water that was

367
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.000
actually wastewater. So this may
be an issue if you have limited

368
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.000
supply of well water.

369
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:48.000
>> And the iSpring system had a
booster

370
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:54.000
pump and we had to purchase the
booster pump for the hydrologic

371
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.067
evolution system and Aro system.

372
00:18:57.067 --> 00:19:02.067
>> On slide 17. we have recorded
what the manufacturers

373
00:19:02.067 --> 00:19:08.067
recommend. For replacement of
prefilter's and for the Aro
membrane,

374
00:19:08.067 --> 00:19:14.067
the filter is anywhere from 3 to
12 months for replacement.

375
00:19:14.067 --> 00:19:18.067
And they typically range in cost
from $10

376
00:19:18.067 --> 00:19:21.067
in cost from $10-$50 each.

377
00:19:21.067 --> 00:19:27.000
And the Aro membrane replaced
anywhere from 6 to 24

378
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.000
months, and these Aro membranes
typically cost 100

379
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.000
$850.

380
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:39.000
>> Of course all this is
dependent on the water quality.

381
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:43.000
This is our reverse osmosis test
unit. We use the 5000

382
00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:49.000
gallon tank with heat exchanger
tied to control temperature. You

383
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:57.067
can see we sampled prior to the
Aro system, and coming

384
00:19:57.067 --> 00:20:01.067
from the per meter clean water
line coming off the Aro system.

385
00:20:01.067 --> 00:20:08.067
>> -- RO system. We simple to
use the sampling plan,

386
00:20:08.067 --> 00:20:12.067
which is a seven-day sampling
plan with a two-day stagnation.
Over

387
00:20:12.067 --> 00:20:21.067
the weekend a two-day stagnation

388
00:20:21.067 --> 00:20:24.067
period.

389
00:20:24.067 --> 00:20:29.000
>> And we would ship the samples
to Chicago for analysis

390
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.000
within the 28 day holding
pattern.

391
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.000
>> Results for the iSpring

392
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.000
system, all results were not
attacked.

393
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:45.000
And of the chemicals came
through.

394
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:51.000
For the PFAS hydrologic
evolution system,

395
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:55.067
we do have 60 to 42 PFAS results
were greater than

396
00:20:55.067 --> 00:21:01.067
not attacked. In most of these
were right after

397
00:21:01.067 --> 00:21:06.067
shutdown and start up on a
seven. We

398
00:21:06.067 --> 00:21:12.067
can see the results here that
were not attacked. Most of them

399
00:21:12.067 --> 00:21:15.067
were removal.

400
00:21:15.067 --> 00:21:21.067
However the PFAS would be 70
ppm.

401
00:21:21.067 --> 00:21:24.067
But the health advisory level.

402
00:21:24.067 --> 00:21:30.000
>> And for the flex eon result,
you

403
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.000
can see they were all
non-detect.

404
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:37.000
>> The second part of the study
was the GAC media study. We
chose

405
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:42.000
to use the rapid small scale
column test so we can look a
breakthrough.

406
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:47.000
Of the PFAS, we took 55 gallons

407
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:53.000
from the 5000 gallon mixing. We
sampled prior to a carbon

408
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:59.067
column which is 3/8 inches

409
00:21:59.067 --> 00:22:00.067
0.375" x 6" long.

410
00:22:00.067 --> 00:22:06.067
We chose to sample every 30
minutes for eight hours.

411
00:22:06.067 --> 00:22:11.067
And these are the two carbons we
used. One was a coconut base
carbon

412
00:22:11.067 --> 00:22:17.067
by Evoqua.

413
00:22:17.067 --> 00:22:23.067
And test it was a Calgon test.
We

414
00:22:23.067 --> 00:22:27.000
used a [ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

415
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:32.000
>> And the process for the rapid
small scale test is actually

416
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:38.000
to grind the carbon down to a
smaller size. Going by 12 x 30
mesh and

417
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.000
12 x 40 mesh. Two 100 12 x 40
mesh.

418
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:45.000
Two 170 to 200 district east of
the carbon and get the

419
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:51.000
smaller size and then scale that
up for full-time

420
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.000
breakthrough removal.

421
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:00.067
>> And this on slide 27 you can
see the

422
00:23:00.067 --> 00:23:05.067
Evoqua coconut carbon. The
carbon broke

423
00:23:05.067 --> 00:23:08.067
through in about four hours.

424
00:23:08.067 --> 00:23:14.067
And the PF shorter chain
molecules go through about

425
00:23:14.067 --> 00:23:17.067
six hours.

426
00:23:17.067 --> 00:23:23.067
By two minutes coal-based
carbon, the PFAS

427
00:23:23.067 --> 00:23:28.000
is a little sooner three hours.
And

428
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.000
[ Indiscernible ] actually last
a little bit longer

429
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.000
before breakthrough.

430
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:39.000
>> So looking at the worst-case
PFAS

431
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:45.000
infiltration concentration, we
decided to use the

432
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:50.000
ad design model for mission tech
University to see the lifetime

433
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:56.000
based on the average PFOA and
PFAS

434
00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:02.000
concentration. From 2013 to
2016. And

435
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:07.000
PFAS concentration was
approximately 3000 ppt for the

436
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:12.000
worst-case scenario in hundred
80 for the average day which is
16

437
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:15.000
to 17 time reduction.

438
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:22.000
>> For the max Monday the
seasons is 70 ppt at about 3400

439
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:28.000
[ Indiscernible ] for the
coconut base and

440
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.000
2700 bed volumes for Calgon.

441
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:34.000
For the experiment of values
which is consistent.

442
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:40.000
>> So looking at the model
results, you can see the
breakthrough of

443
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:46.000
the action day in green and the

444
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.000
average day in blue. And the
maximum days only lasted 24 days

445
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:57.067
of operation. Whereas the
average

446
00:24:57.067 --> 00:25:02.067
day actually lasted 2.2 years of
operation with the coconut base.

447
00:25:02.067 --> 00:25:11.067
>> Similarly, the carbon lasted

448
00:25:11.067 --> 00:25:14.067
1.5 years of operation for the
average day case in 90 days

449
00:25:14.067 --> 00:25:17.067
of operation.

450
00:25:17.067 --> 00:25:23.067
>> Now we're going to switch
gears here and explain how and

451
00:25:23.067 --> 00:25:28.000
or oh system might be installed
in the household. You

452
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:33.000
can see the booster cop that we
purchased for the evolution. The

453
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:37.000
or oh -- the RO

454
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:40.000
system.

455
00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.000
>> These systems range low range
between

456
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.000
0.35 and 6.7 gallons per minute.

457
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.000
You would use a storage tank to
hold the water to

458
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.000
drain enough supply for the
household.

459
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:58.067
So for a two bedroom house,
households you would need a 200

460
00:25:58.067 --> 00:26:04.067
gallon tank and for a
four-bedroom you would need
about 400

461
00:26:04.067 --> 00:26:07.067
gallon tank. That would have to
be installed in your hot water
tank

462
00:26:07.067 --> 00:26:10.067
or garage.

463
00:26:10.067 --> 00:26:14.067
>> The aspect of systems may
require a

464
00:26:14.067 --> 00:26:22.067
re-mineralization cartridge
because the

465
00:26:22.067 --> 00:26:25.067
RO removes the minerals from the
well water that can change the
aggressiveness

466
00:26:25.067 --> 00:26:26.067
of the water in the household.

467
00:26:26.067 --> 00:26:31.000
So mineralization cartridges
would provide minerals and
soften the

468
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:34.000
water back to avoid any issues
with your

469
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.000
household plumbing.

470
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:42.000
>> We are looking at $2000
before

471
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:48.000
installation with the RO system.
Is a typical 45 gallon

472
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:53.000
per minute non-backwashing whole
house carbon

473
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.067
filter with a five and 1 µm
pleated sediment

474
00:26:57.067 --> 00:27:02.067
cartridges. The issue with PFAS
removal for carbon is the empty

475
00:27:02.067 --> 00:27:04.067
bed contact time.

476
00:27:04.067 --> 00:27:10.067
Instead of using one cubic foot
of carbons for the order
control,

477
00:27:10.067 --> 00:27:15.067
household carbon water filter,
you're looking at

478
00:27:15.067 --> 00:27:23.067
8 ft.³ of carbon in the
backwashing tank, so you are
talking a lot

479
00:27:23.067 --> 00:27:27.000
more carbon which is
logistically an issue working

480
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.000
in someone's basement.

481
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.000
>> Another issue is you would
have to restrict the

482
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:42.000
well water flow to 5 gallons per
minute,

483
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.000
so in this case you're looking
at $4000 before installation and
quite

484
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:47.000
a bit of weight.

485
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:51.000
>> Another thought is to even
restrict the flow further

486
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:57.067
to 5 gallons per minute, just
like much of the RO system to go
back

487
00:27:57.067 --> 00:28:00.067
to the storage take.

488
00:28:00.067 --> 00:28:05.067
And after the GAC out more
often, but it's more manageable.

489
00:28:05.067 --> 00:28:11.067
You're talking about a lot of
carbon media. And again you need

490
00:28:11.067 --> 00:28:16.067
a pump to actually use the
pressure in the household after
the

491
00:28:16.067 --> 00:28:20.067
water storage tank. In this case
you're looking at $1200

492
00:28:20.067 --> 00:28:23.067
before installation.

493
00:28:23.067 --> 00:28:29.000
>> So in summary, the large GAC
insertion system has high cost

494
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.000
and high capital.

495
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:38.000
The small GSE has moderate
capital and I mean it costs. And

496
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:42.000
the RO system has moderate
capital and maintenance costs.
The large

497
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:48.000
GAC has large footprint and
heavy company components. The
small has

498
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.000
large footprint and awkward
components.

499
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:57.067
Large GAC system has higher flow
rate, 45 gallons per minute

500
00:28:57.067 --> 00:28:59.067
with the water stain desperate
but no water storage

501
00:28:59.067 --> 00:29:03.067
take is required. Her both a
small GAC and that RO system you
need

502
00:29:03.067 --> 00:29:07.067
water storage tank. The large
GAC insertion system requires a
desert

503
00:29:07.067 --> 00:29:11.067
backwash with periodic carbon
replacement. The

504
00:29:11.067 --> 00:29:16.067
small GAC system connections
requires more frequent

505
00:29:16.067 --> 00:29:22.067
carbon replacement and it

506
00:29:22.067 --> 00:29:24.067
RO system requires high system
pressure, reject wastewater
lines

507
00:29:24.067 --> 00:29:27.000
and periodic membrane treatment.

508
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:33.000
>> Other considerations for the
GAC insertion system, this

509
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:37.000
issues with logistical, cost and
safety of carbon replacement.
Where

510
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:42.000
the RO's system has issues with
sanitizing

511
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.000
components in a placing
cartridges and tubing. The GAC
system has actually

512
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.000
less impact on the cold water
system and flow-through carbon
takes. Where

513
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:53.000
is the RO system residents may
complain about the cold water

514
00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.000
temperature at room temperature
in the water

515
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.067
storage tank.

516
00:29:56.067 --> 00:30:00.067
>> So in other words the water
coming out of the tap is going
to be at

517
00:30:00.067 --> 00:30:03.067
room temperature. Temperature
instead of being cold. The GAC
insertion

518
00:30:03.067 --> 00:30:09.067
system may not be effective on
short change PFAS whereas the
Aro system

519
00:30:09.067 --> 00:30:14.067
just like the RO system treats
both long and short chain

520
00:30:14.067 --> 00:30:27.000
PFAS. And the GAC system could
experience contaminant

521
00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:30.000
breakthrough if the carbon
change out schedules not
followed in the

522
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.000
RO system is likely to have
contentment breakthrough even if
the scheduled

523
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.000
maintenance is not performed.
However corrosion control and
household

524
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:37.000
plumbing may be an issue for
point of entry in the RO water
system.

525
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.000
>> So in conclusion, it can
essentially remove PFAS, and
detection from

526
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:45.000
the sampling events. However
long-term systems were not
tested, we only

527
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:51.000
went for seven days. With the RO
system. An RSS and rapid

528
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:55.067
field data estimated the call
base carbon in the lifetime

529
00:30:55.067 --> 00:31:00.067
of 20 days, with the coconut
base carbon lifetime of 33 days
based

530
00:31:00.067 --> 00:31:05.067
on the work case of the PFAS
concentration.

531
00:31:05.067 --> 00:31:08.067
>> Before exceeding the 70 ppt

532
00:31:08.067 --> 00:31:11.067
factory level.

533
00:31:11.067 --> 00:31:14.067
>> Following the results for
lower concentration,

534
00:31:14.067 --> 00:31:20.067
the deadlines of one and half
years with the carbon in 2.2

535
00:31:20.067 --> 00:31:24.067
years for the coconut base
carbon. However additional

536
00:31:24.067 --> 00:31:29.000
pilot test should be performed
to ensure the

537
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.000
use of best performing GAC for
each application.

538
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:34.000
>> Other conclusions a properly
designed base of stars

539
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:38.000
spray characteristics, household
water systems can provide
relatively

540
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:44.000
inexpensive treatment for PFAS
removal in the home. Analysis of

541
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.000
PFAS samples are costly for
homeowners

542
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.000
and typically $200 per sample.
And it could be a major hurdle
and effective

543
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.000
removal in the water supply.

544
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:58.067
>> Proper operation of
maintenance and conservative
replacement of

545
00:31:58.067 --> 00:32:03.067
Trent -- RO media maybe one way
to circumvent the

546
00:32:03.067 --> 00:32:06.067
high cost of monitoring for
drinking water.

547
00:32:06.067 --> 00:32:12.067
>> This is the

548
00:32:12.067 --> 00:32:15.067
EPA disclaimer.

549
00:32:15.067 --> 00:32:20.067
With any endorsement of
commercial is a commercially

550
00:32:20.067 --> 00:32:23.067
available systems.

551
00:32:23.067 --> 00:32:30.000
Should not -- does not

552
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.000
-- any endorsement of
commercially available products

553
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.000
should not be considered by EPA.

554
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:40.000
>> Are there any questions?

555
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:44.000
>> Well actually think you
Craig, we do have a series of

556
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:48.000
questions that have already been
submitted in the Q&A window. So

557
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:52.000
I will have you leave your
slides up there in case people
are referencing

558
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.000
a particular slide in and talk.

559
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:59.067
And I will remind the live
audience and if you have
questions for Craig

560
00:32:59.067 --> 00:33:02.067
or for Steve on a particular
project, you can type

561
00:33:02.067 --> 00:33:07.067
them into the window which --
the Q&A window which appears in
the

562
00:33:07.067 --> 00:33:11.067
lower corner of your screen. You
can type much messages

563
00:33:11.067 --> 00:33:14.067
at the bottom and we will start
reading through those questions

564
00:33:14.067 --> 00:33:16.067
so the speakers can address
them.

565
00:33:16.067 --> 00:33:22.067
>> This first question, Craig,
came in in reference to slide
number

566
00:33:22.067 --> 00:33:27.000
11. In this participant wants to
know why was the water adjusted?

567
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:36.000
>> Okay, yeah.

568
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:42.000
The NSF standard is actually
designed to

569
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:48.000
determine if he's household
treatment devices are effective
for

570
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:51.000
contaminant removal.

571
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:57.000
What they do is a look at what
are the, one of the worst

572
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.000
case situations where you might
have a water

573
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:08.000
quality that can impact a
reverse osmosis system or a GAC
media.

574
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.000
So for instance RO membrane have
a little bit higher temperature

575
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:18.000
than the GAC, because the seals
on the RO membrane

576
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:20.000
may be impacted by temperature.

577
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:25.000
And then near the train out the
RO membrane,

578
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:31.000
the hardness can actually impact
the lifetime

579
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:37.000
of the RO membrane as well as
the impact of the

580
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:41.000
dissolve solid on the RO and the
GAC. And

581
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:45.000
the GAC can also compete on the
GAC media.

582
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.000
>> Okay, excellent. The next
question

583
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:54.000
gets into your analytics
controvert interval. They would
like to

584
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:57.067
know what is analytic interval
for the point.07 µg

585
00:34:57.067 --> 00:35:00.067
0.07 mcg/L.

586
00:35:00.067 --> 00:35:03.067
>> Okay.

587
00:35:03.067 --> 00:35:08.067
We as a standard operating
procedure. And the Chicago

588
00:35:08.067 --> 00:35:14.067
regional laboratory. The method
detection limits for all of

589
00:35:14.067 --> 00:35:20.067
the six you see them or three RO
--

590
00:35:20.067 --> 00:35:25.067
PFAS contaminants were less of 3
ppt. Do they are detecting all

591
00:35:25.067 --> 00:35:31.000
six of those in less than 3 ppt.
As far

592
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:37.000
as a competence interval, we're
going to actually have, we

593
00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:43.000
submitted a journal article that
will

594
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.000
provide more detailed
information on that. But the
method itself is

595
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.000
pretty robust. Down to the three
preparatory and level.

596
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:56.067
>> Okay. We have a number of
questions about

597
00:35:56.067 --> 00:36:01.067
the RO systems. So I will sort
of jump into those

598
00:36:01.067 --> 00:36:07.067
RO questions. In the first one
asks, does the

599
00:36:07.067 --> 00:36:12.067
RO wastewater contain the
compounds?

600
00:36:12.067 --> 00:36:14.067
>> Yes it does.

601
00:36:14.067 --> 00:36:19.067
We are more than less district
more or less concentrating any

602
00:36:19.067 --> 00:36:23.067
[ Indiscernible ] in the water
for the

603
00:36:23.067 --> 00:36:28.000
reverse osmosis system. I know
there's a lot of concern about
the liability

604
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:33.000
issues with putting RO back into
the national PFAS

605
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:39.000
back into the environment. If
you're looking at the well
water,

606
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:45.000
you may be pulling the PFAS out
and sending it to subject system

607
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:50.000
in the home or if the sewer is
available so were to

608
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:55.067
sewer, and I guess at this point

609
00:36:55.067 --> 00:37:01.067
the regulations are not clear on
the fate of the PFAS, but
regardless

610
00:37:01.067 --> 00:37:06.067
if it does go to the septic
system and you still pulling

611
00:37:06.067 --> 00:37:11.067
water, and some of the PFAS
would get back into

612
00:37:11.067 --> 00:37:16.067
the groundwater, we can have the
point of entry system to treat

613
00:37:16.067 --> 00:37:19.067
the PFAS. But that's a difficult
question and

614
00:37:19.067 --> 00:37:23.067
I appreciate that and thank you.

615
00:37:23.067 --> 00:37:26.067
>> And so I believe that you
address the question, a number
of people

616
00:37:26.067 --> 00:37:28.000
were writing in exactly on that.

617
00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:33.000
And they want to know exactly
how you would be dealing with
the waste

618
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:36.000
stream that is associated with
the RO system.

619
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:42.000
So if you have that water
contaminated with PFAS, what you
do with it

620
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:46.000
and to address the questions are
thinks very much of that.

621
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:49.000
>> Let's look at another
element.

622
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:53.000
For RO systems with separately
streams, can you confirm

623
00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:58.067
that the concentration in their
were even higher

624
00:37:58.067 --> 00:38:03.067
if you talk about what you did
with that water?

625
00:38:03.067 --> 00:38:05.067
>> And we're talking
specifically about your

626
00:38:05.067 --> 00:38:08.067
text.

627
00:38:08.067 --> 00:38:14.067
>> Okay. Well the test and
evaluation

628
00:38:14.067 --> 00:38:18.067
facility is on the grounds of
the Metropolitan

629
00:38:18.067 --> 00:38:20.067
sewer District in Cincinnati
Ohio.

630
00:38:20.067 --> 00:38:24.067
The wastewater treatment for all
Cincinnati goes to the
wastewater

631
00:38:24.067 --> 00:38:29.000
treatment plant. So the
traversed district reverse
osmosis

632
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:35.000
wastewater goes directly into
the wastewater treatment system.
And

633
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:41.000
as far as the carbon, it would
actually

634
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:47.000
be absorbed by the carbon. We're
talking about a 3/8 inch

635
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:52.000
diameter by 6 inch so it's not
much to contaminate

636
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.067
carbon for the actual GAC media
study.

637
00:38:55.067 --> 00:39:01.067
>> In this other question, I
think

638
00:39:01.067 --> 00:39:07.067
we are actually asking the
laboratory testing, the question
was asked,

639
00:39:07.067 --> 00:39:13.067
how is a 62% water through the
RO system that became West water

640
00:39:13.067 --> 00:39:16.067
managed? I don't know if they're
talking

641
00:39:16.067 --> 00:39:20.067
again about the way stream or
they're talking about the
influent waters

642
00:39:20.067 --> 00:39:24.067
that ultimately turn into way
stream, how do you handle the
water?

643
00:39:24.067 --> 00:39:30.000
>> Okay we took our samples
before and after.

644
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:36.000
The actual again wastewater from
the RO

645
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:45.000
system went to the wastewater
treatment plant in the city of
Cincinnati.

646
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:51.000
Where the GAC, the

647
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:54.000
RO adheres to the carbon.

648
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.067
And so all we measure coming up
and there was the clean water,

649
00:39:58.067 --> 00:40:04.067
all the RO was retained. And
that's not completely true.

650
00:40:04.067 --> 00:40:08.067
After breakthrough some didn't
actually go to sewage

651
00:40:08.067 --> 00:40:11.067
treatment plants.

652
00:40:11.067 --> 00:40:16.067
>> Okay. Okay can you talk
exactly where the clean

653
00:40:16.067 --> 00:40:21.067
water for the RO system comes
from if you have contaminated

654
00:40:21.067 --> 00:40:24.067
water site?

655
00:40:24.067 --> 00:40:28.000
>> The reverse osmosis is
actually

656
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:34.000
a fiber long membrane where you
force the water

657
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:40.000
through under pressure and the
clean water permeates

658
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:45.000
through the membrane and the
dirty water goes across the
membrane.

659
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.000
So you are actually using
pressure to force the clean
water through

660
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:55.067
the membrane and that rejects
all of the P5 --

661
00:40:55.067 --> 00:41:00.067
PFAS contaminants that pass
through with the wastewater
portion in

662
00:41:00.067 --> 00:41:03.067
the reverse osmosis membrane.

663
00:41:03.067 --> 00:41:07.067
>> The other options for the
commercially available system

664
00:41:07.067 --> 00:41:12.067
where someone had to carbon
reflectors which have been

665
00:41:12.067 --> 00:41:18.067
doing some of the heavy lifting
for the PFAS removal.

666
00:41:18.067 --> 00:41:22.067
A lot of these as I mentioned in
the presentation,

667
00:41:22.067 --> 00:41:26.067
they have more than one
reflector that may also be doing

668
00:41:26.067 --> 00:41:29.000
some of the removal.

669
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.000
>> Okay.

670
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.000
Can you answer this question --
for the RO system

671
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:41.000
and tested with the pre-and
post carbon cultures,
[ Indiscernible ]

672
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:45.000
they were. And --
[ Indiscernible - multiple
speakers ]

673
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:49.000
>> Obviously you want to look at
what is the

674
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:53.000
RO membrane doing. But in our
case we are doing

675
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:58.067
this to support the residents of
Colorado. So we just took the
commercial

676
00:41:58.067 --> 00:42:04.067
available systems off-the-shelf
on any

677
00:42:04.067 --> 00:42:08.067
given website, or purchase, and
tested them as is.

678
00:42:08.067 --> 00:42:11.067
Before and after.

679
00:42:11.067 --> 00:42:18.067
>> We did not look at what did
the carbon prefilter remove

680
00:42:18.067 --> 00:42:23.067
versus the membrane, it was just
a snapshot before or after.

681
00:42:23.067 --> 00:42:25.067
>> Okay. That sort of what they
were asking to follow up on.

682
00:42:25.067 --> 00:42:30.000
So do you have confidence that
the RO membrane with effective
in PFAS

683
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.000
and [ Indiscernible -
low volume ] for

684
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.000
the carbon filters.

685
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:40.000
>> Well in one case, some of
them, the

686
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:46.000
PFAS were detected. And to be
fair, we are only testing one
system.

687
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:50.000
Ideally you would test number of
these systems

688
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:56.067
from the same manufacturer to
look at was one of the RO
membranes

689
00:42:56.067 --> 00:43:02.067
compromised. During
manufacturing. So there's a lot

690
00:43:02.067 --> 00:43:06.067
of variables with the funding
and the timeline

691
00:43:06.067 --> 00:43:10.067
to get the information out to
the public. We chose just to do
one

692
00:43:10.067 --> 00:43:16.067
system. But ideally we would do
additional research on the
different

693
00:43:16.067 --> 00:43:21.067
membranes and manufactured at
different times.

694
00:43:21.067 --> 00:43:25.067
To look at how well the RO
membranes actually remove --
[ Indiscernible

695
00:43:25.067 --> 00:43:28.000
- low volume ]

696
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:30.000
>> Okay. And again if we have
addressed this. But just

697
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.000
to confirm. People really want
to know if there was a

698
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:39.000
gas prefilter in the RO. How do
you know that the PFAS to get
tree

699
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.000
for -- get back to get treated
by the [ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible

700
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:43.000
- low volume ]

701
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:50.000
>> Good point. And I just
mentioned you know we just test

702
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.000
before and after. So some of
this may have been removed by
the RO

703
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.000
membranes. Seven is removed by
the GC filters. So we did not go

704
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:00.000
to the level of detail in the
research study.

705
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:05.000
>> Okay. So now we are going to
try some questions

706
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:10.000
kind of shifting gears a little
bit. With a granular

707
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:13.000
activated carbon.

708
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:15.000
Actually take that back.

709
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:21.000
Let's clarify did you evaluate
removal by carbon pre-and

710
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:26.067
post filtered district filters
versus the RO.

711
00:44:26.067 --> 00:44:31.000
>> I'm sorry, what were you
asking?

712
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:36.000
>> So we were just sitting on
this. Specifically did you
evaluate

713
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:41.000
the relative removal by carbon
in the pre-and post filters
versus

714
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:44.000
the RO membranes.

715
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:47.000
>> All this in question, but you
talk about [ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible

716
00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:53.000
- low volume ] >>

717
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:58.067
No we did look at the current
with the RO

718
00:44:58.067 --> 00:45:01.067
review, we look to both of them
removed.

719
00:45:01.067 --> 00:45:07.067
>> Okay. Someone would like to
know if

720
00:45:07.067 --> 00:45:11.067
you can essentially sorry,

721
00:45:11.067 --> 00:45:14.067
bear with me.

722
00:45:14.067 --> 00:45:17.067
>> So what did you do with the
spec carbon from the

723
00:45:17.067 --> 00:45:20.067
carbon filters?

724
00:45:20.067 --> 00:45:26.067
>> Is when out well, I'm not
sure actually.

725
00:45:26.067 --> 00:45:31.000
I believe they went out
[ Indiscernible ] it's not
regulated

726
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:34.000
contaminants.

727
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:40.000
My guess is that it went out to

728
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:46.000
the landfill. Okay. And can you
comment what the

729
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:49.000
contact time was for the GAC's?

730
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:54.000
>> Yes they were 10 minutes
empty bed contact

731
00:45:54.000 --> 00:46:00.067
time. For the Jaycees media. And
when you're talking

732
00:46:00.067 --> 00:46:03.067
about a [ Indiscernible ]
situation you

733
00:46:03.067 --> 00:46:09.067
are doubling that. If you are
actually installed in the home,
if you

734
00:46:09.067 --> 00:46:12.067
had to carbon tanks in each and
the 20 minutes empty

735
00:46:12.067 --> 00:46:15.067
bank content.

736
00:46:15.067 --> 00:46:20.067
>> Someone wants to know what is
about

737
00:46:20.067 --> 00:46:24.067
coconut that makes it a good
option over [ Indiscernible ].

738
00:46:24.067 --> 00:46:30.000
>> But I think there are
different

739
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:36.000
core sizes when you compare :
coconut. They

740
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:41.000
are actually fewer pores in the
coconut base. I'm not

741
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:45.000
going to speculate on why the
coconut based carbon is better,

742
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:51.000
but the modeling

743
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:56.067
supported the carbon or the
coconut based carbon would

744
00:46:56.067 --> 00:47:05.067
last longer than the
[ Indiscernible ] and

745
00:47:05.067 --> 00:47:08.067
that's why the research study.

746
00:47:08.067 --> 00:47:14.067
>> One of the participants wants
to know why exactly the called
9S

747
00:47:14.067 --> 00:47:16.067
600 selected for the task. They
want to say that they are
understanding

748
00:47:16.067 --> 00:47:22.067
that it different
[ Indiscernible ] is called on

749
00:47:22.067 --> 00:47:26.067
S 400 is a standard unit for
this type of PFAS removal and
they just

750
00:47:26.067 --> 00:47:32.000
referenced an article that comes
on the scientific publication

751
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:37.000
that Cole GC has actually
outperformed the coconut

752
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:40.000
GAC for PFAS.

753
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.000
>> Yeah, I guess it depends on
which RO contaminant

754
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.000
you're talking about and
performing like that. In our
case

755
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:54.000
the shorter chain, by

756
00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:59.067
[ Indiscernible ] based carbon
is actually better than the
coconut

757
00:47:59.067 --> 00:48:05.067
base, for the PFAS

758
00:48:05.067 --> 00:48:10.067
and PFOA, the coconut base is
more effective. For removal. And

759
00:48:10.067 --> 00:48:16.067
as far as the issue with the and
400. it's typically used

760
00:48:16.067 --> 00:48:22.067
in the [ Indiscernible ]
treatment plan. We worked with
Calgon

761
00:48:22.067 --> 00:48:26.067
carbon on what they recommend
for point of use, point of entry

762
00:48:26.067 --> 00:48:30.000
devices and this is what they
recommend.

763
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:33.000
>> What we should evaluate.

764
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:37.000
>> We did have a number of
questions about the

765
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:40.000
municipal treatment, so I will
come back to that just a moment.

766
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:46.000
>> But we did -- we did go back
and restate the effectiveness of

767
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:50.000
removal of the shortchange
[ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible

768
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:56.067
- low volume ] >>

769
00:48:56.067 --> 00:48:59.067
All right.

770
00:48:59.067 --> 00:49:04.067
So the you know, part of the
issue with all the studies

771
00:49:04.067 --> 00:49:10.067
and something to consider, if
you look at the

772
00:49:10.067 --> 00:49:15.067
well water in a PFAS plan, you
will have different

773
00:49:15.067 --> 00:49:21.067
concentrations of different PFAS
contaminants.

774
00:49:21.067 --> 00:49:24.067
For a given location.

775
00:49:24.067 --> 00:49:29.000
So what we did is we pulled all
the results from the

776
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:35.000
Colorado Department of
[ Indiscernible ] and

777
00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:40.000
look at the worst plate -- the
worst-case situation. In other
words we weren't

778
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:46.000
starting with all the same
concentrations of all PFAS
contaminants. A

779
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:54.000
very. In a look at back at some
of the earlier slides.

780
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:57.067
The slide here.

781
00:49:57.067 --> 00:50:03.067
So you can see for the shorter

782
00:50:03.067 --> 00:50:09.067
chain, the shorter PFAS, these
were much lower,

783
00:50:09.067 --> 00:50:15.067
at least the PF BS was much
lower than

784
00:50:15.067 --> 00:50:19.067
the maximum PFOS.

785
00:50:19.067 --> 00:50:24.067
This is actually what we studied
will evaluate the maximum
concentration

786
00:50:24.067 --> 00:50:28.000
and these are varying PFOS
castration

787
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:34.000
levels. So when you get the
breakthrough,

788
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:40.000
you are not all starting with
the same

789
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:42.000
PFOS concentration.

790
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:48.000
So some will break out earlier
than others.

791
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:54.000
So for instance, the

792
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.067
PFAS broke out in three hours
for the coconut

793
00:50:58.067 --> 00:51:04.067
base and go to carbon-based and
it runs away over here, so it
has

794
00:51:04.067 --> 00:51:07.067
left -- lasted an hour have
longer. But again this

795
00:51:07.067 --> 00:51:13.067
a lot more higher concentrations
of

796
00:51:13.067 --> 00:51:16.067
PFOS then PFOA.

797
00:51:16.067 --> 00:51:20.067
>> I don't have that explains
it, I hope so.

798
00:51:20.067 --> 00:51:23.067
>> Okay great. Thank you.

799
00:51:23.067 --> 00:51:28.000
Someone is asking, is the GAC RS
[ Indiscernible ] did

800
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:34.000
you grind to a particular
reduction in size

801
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.000
where the column diameter was 20
times greater 50 times greater
than

802
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:41.000
the particles [ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

803
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:47.000
>> Yeah, we went to the hundred
70 x 200 mesh, and again

804
00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:52.000
the vocal and Calgon reprimanded
the

805
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:56.067
Bismarck so we ground the carbon
with the mortar pistol and put
it

806
00:51:56.067 --> 00:52:02.067
through since to get the hundred
75. 200 mess that actually

807
00:52:02.067 --> 00:52:10.067
went into the spec 200 -- 200
mesh.

808
00:52:10.067 --> 00:52:12.067
>> Okay.

809
00:52:12.067 --> 00:52:17.067
I'm going to switch gears here
to some are analytical

810
00:52:17.067 --> 00:52:22.067
base questions. Someone wants to
know if you did any analysis of

811
00:52:22.067 --> 00:52:27.000
how hardness with pH affects the
efficiency of the treatment.

812
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:33.000
>> We didn't.

813
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:37.000
You know we chose to set up

814
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:43.000
a water quality parameters based
on the P4

815
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:49.000
73 substandard and also the
water quality in our first. So
we

816
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:54.000
did not look at the impact of pH
or hardness on

817
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.067
the removal.

818
00:52:57.067 --> 00:53:01.067
>> Again all of this begs for
more research. I think

819
00:53:01.067 --> 00:53:06.067
there's a lot of areas here that
we could do a lot more research,

820
00:53:06.067 --> 00:53:11.067
including on residents in the
exchange resident removal,

821
00:53:11.067 --> 00:53:17.067
which seems to be working very
well. For

822
00:53:17.067 --> 00:53:21.067
PFAS removal. But I think we
will see future research down
the road.

823
00:53:21.067 --> 00:53:27.000
>> Okay. Someone has a question
about tabulated data for aquifer

824
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:32.000
water quality. They don't
recognize units for phosphate.

825
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:37.000
Mostly it's milligrams, and then
he/

826
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:40.000
H. Can you confirm what units
you have an aquifer water table
or

827
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:45.000
[ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

828
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:51.000
>> Sure.

829
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:57.000
Okay. Phosphates. Phosphorus.

830
00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:07.000
Yet. Yeah, that doesn't look
great.

831
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:12.000
Have that person email me and I
will get back with them.

832
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:17.000
>> Okay. So --

833
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:21.000
I'm sorry, I will bounce back to
question. Could you speculate on

834
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:24.000
the presence of
[ Indiscernible - low volume ]

835
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.000
in the feedwater and how that
might have an effect on
absorption and

836
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.000
possible desorption of the
[ Indiscernible ]
[ Indiscernible

837
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:34.000
- low volume ]

838
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:44.000
>> I guess the PCE, you know
they mentioned the PCE being an
issue.

839
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:49.000
I would have to think that one
through.

840
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:50.000
Have that person email me also.

841
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:53.000
>> Okay.

842
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:57.067
>> Okay. Let's circle back to
what the local

843
00:54:57.067 --> 00:55:02.067
municipalities are doing. A
number of people had asked if
treatment

844
00:55:02.067 --> 00:55:04.067
is in place at the local
municipalities and

845
00:55:04.067 --> 00:55:08.067
if so, what are they doing with
feedback from the water.

846
00:55:08.067 --> 00:55:12.067
>> Want me to take that one
Craig?

847
00:55:12.067 --> 00:55:15.067
>> Yeah, thanks Steve.

848
00:55:15.067 --> 00:55:20.067
>> So I was at the community
engagement [ Indiscernible ]

849
00:55:20.067 --> 00:55:26.067
event this past August and all
the municipalities that are
currently

850
00:55:26.067 --> 00:55:30.000
impacted security wide with
fountain stress were hills, all

851
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:35.000
the presentations on what
they're currently doing. All of
them, if

852
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:39.000
they are using groundwater from
the affected aquifer are
treating

853
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:45.000
with either activated carbon or
exchange [ Indiscernible ] to

854
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:47.000
not attack. And they maybe
blending surface water from

855
00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:53.000
public reservoirs or ring and
surface water up from below
reservoir as

856
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:59.067
another way to augment. So the
peak to mind

857
00:55:59.067 --> 00:56:01.067
for service water for Pueblo
West for

858
00:56:01.067 --> 00:56:03.067
may not be a cover all their
needs.

859
00:56:03.067 --> 00:56:05.067
They are going to start pumping
in offer for materials where
they

860
00:56:05.067 --> 00:56:07.067
are. They are treating with
either activated municipal
systems. They

861
00:56:07.067 --> 00:56:11.067
are either using activated
carbon are [ Indiscernible ]
exchange.

862
00:56:11.067 --> 00:56:17.067
I believe there to systems that
I saw that were using the

863
00:56:17.067 --> 00:56:19.067
[ Indiscernible ] and two
sisters were using activated

864
00:56:19.067 --> 00:56:23.067
carbon systems. So I think they
are all either exploring or
expanding

865
00:56:23.067 --> 00:56:28.000
the current treatment. But to
all that groundwater shown in

866
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:33.000
the map there, that those for
municipal municipalities are
currently using

867
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:36.000
for groundwater are treating to
not detect like the lead for the

868
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:42.000
six ECM are three compound
mention

869
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.000
>> And can you just expand a
little bit of a surface water

870
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:50.000
that's used as an interim
measure, so is it happening at
facilities

871
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:55.067
and people go to get the blood
water, or is that planning
happening

872
00:56:55.067 --> 00:56:58.067
within the municipal treatment
system?

873
00:56:58.067 --> 00:57:01.067
>> My understanding again from
some of the presentations

874
00:57:01.067 --> 00:57:06.067
in the [ Indiscernible ] with
that the extent possible, they
are using

875
00:57:06.067 --> 00:57:12.067
surface water to meet demand.
But the peak demands,

876
00:57:12.067 --> 00:57:17.067
they the amount of surface

877
00:57:17.067 --> 00:57:19.067
water they can bring it is not
sufficient, in which case they
are blending

878
00:57:19.067 --> 00:57:22.067
with treated groundwater either
using the carbon or exchange
water

879
00:57:22.067 --> 00:57:25.067
systems.

880
00:57:25.067 --> 00:57:28.000
>> Okay. Okay.

881
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:32.000
Craig, I think this question
goes back to you. Is calcium

882
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.467
sulfate necessary
for the removal of PFAS
[ Indiscernible ]

883
00:57:35.467 --> 00:57:40.000
[ Indiscernible - low volume ]
the state that it acts like
precipitation agent in

884
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:42.000
Aro system so they want to know
has a Aro method been tested
without

885
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:45.000
carbon?

886
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:51.000
>> Are you --

887
00:57:51.000 --> 00:58:00.067
I guess, let me go over slide
here.

888
00:58:00.067 --> 00:58:03.067
[ Pause ]

889
00:58:03.067 --> 00:58:08.067
>> Okay the calcium sulfate was
actually used to boost the
hardness

890
00:58:08.067 --> 00:58:11.067
in the test water.

891
00:58:11.067 --> 00:58:15.067
You know it's not necessary to
-- all these are

892
00:58:15.067 --> 00:58:21.067
just water quality parameters
that are put

893
00:58:21.067 --> 00:58:27.000
in place to challenge the REO --
the

894
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.000
RO membrane.

895
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:36.000
So with Seo three, there are
using those results, the

896
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:42.000
soft them does the calcium
sulfate, sodium

897
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:47.000
bicarbonate and magnesium
sulfate to get the hardness of
the water

898
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.000
for the representative test
water.

899
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:54.000
>> So no, it's not necessary to
remove the PFAS, but

900
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:59.067
it's more of a challenge
parameter for the RO membrane.

901
00:58:59.067 --> 00:59:05.067
>> Okay. Did you ever develop an
expiration of why the post

902
00:59:05.067 --> 00:59:10.067
a nation RO results would have
exceeded the health advisory
level?

903
00:59:10.067 --> 00:59:15.067
>> Again, it's not,

904
00:59:15.067 --> 00:59:20.067
it's difficult to speculate. You
know the membrane seal may not
have

905
00:59:20.067 --> 00:59:23.067
been perfect.

906
00:59:23.067 --> 00:59:29.000
You know, the hydrologic
evolution only had one carbon

907
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:34.000
prefilter. There's a whole bunch
of different issues you may want

908
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:40.000
to look into further if you're
going to do more research.

909
00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:43.000
But I, again I think this
requires more research

910
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:46.000
to have a definitive answer.

911
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:51.000
>> Okay. Could you answer what
is the

912
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:57.067
analytical method that's used
that calls for the 15 mil sample

913
00:59:57.067 --> 01:00:00.067
[ Indiscernible ] with three ppb
LOD?

914
01:00:00.067 --> 01:00:06.067
>> Yes,

915
01:00:06.067 --> 01:00:12.067
it's an LC MS MS teacher.

916
01:00:12.067 --> 01:00:17.067
-- Procedure. I would have to
defer to the researchers

917
01:00:17.067 --> 01:00:20.067
at the Chicago regional
laboratory.

918
01:00:20.067 --> 01:00:25.067
You know they have had the
method certified.

919
01:00:25.067 --> 01:00:28.000
If you want information on that,
I can also provide whoever asked

920
01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:33.000
that question with the standard
operating procedure if the email

921
01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:39.000
me. So I think that would be the
best way to handle the question.

922
01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.000
>> Okay.

923
01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:43.000
All right, and just a quick
reminder.

924
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:46.000
If you happen to be one of the
individuals who had been
suggested to contact

925
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.000
Craig Steve after the broadcast,
we will remind everyone how you

926
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:53.000
can find the contact information
before we close out today.

927
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:56.067
>> So, with that, let me come
back to some questions

928
01:00:56.067 --> 01:01:01.067
that are still in the queue. So
Steve, you answered earlier that

929
01:01:01.067 --> 01:01:06.067
a resin system is being used for
PSP

930
01:01:06.067 --> 01:01:09.067
removal at the municipal level
and a curious a resin system can

931
01:01:09.067 --> 01:01:12.067
also be used as a PO system.

932
01:01:12.067 --> 01:01:16.067
>> Well in terms of using it as
a

933
01:01:16.067 --> 01:01:21.067
POE system, I think that
something that Craig and I are
very interested

934
01:01:21.067 --> 01:01:24.067
in for future resource.

935
01:01:24.067 --> 01:01:30.000
Future research. I don't have
all the specifics,

936
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:35.000
but the folks that are at the
municipal system at the

937
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:39.000
Whitefield aquifer, mind
everyone on the presentation a

938
01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:45.000
while back, I think it was in
2016 or 2017. became the first
in

939
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:51.000
a simple system in US treating
PFAS with

940
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:55.067
exchange resins. In fact the
performance data shows that the

941
01:01:55.067 --> 01:02:00.067
[ Indiscernible ] as Craig
mentioned in current

942
01:02:00.067 --> 01:02:02.067
research is showing the
performance of some of those
exchange resins.

943
01:02:02.067 --> 01:02:06.067
They are doing quite well. I
think it had a five times
greater absorption

944
01:02:06.067 --> 01:02:12.067
capacity for activated carbon,
and greater than a two times
hydraulic

945
01:02:12.067 --> 01:02:16.067
capacity. You up a water through
it and absorb five times

946
01:02:16.067 --> 01:02:18.067
the amount of mass on the
exchange resin.

947
01:02:18.067 --> 01:02:24.067
>> I would encourage folks to
reach out to the Whitefield

948
01:02:24.067 --> 01:02:28.000
aquifer. I only saw the
presentation that they gave with

949
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:32.000
a lot of the data. But I know
much of that information is
online. So

950
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.000
there is a municipal system.
Utilizing the resins for
treatment

951
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:38.000
in Whitefield.

952
01:02:38.000 --> 01:02:42.000
>> Okay. Are you familiar with
any

953
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.000
other technologies that can be
used to treat PFAS at a larger

954
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:48.000
scale?

955
01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:54.000
>> I think the research

956
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:59.067
is going full bore right now.
Everybody is looking at a whole
variety of

957
01:02:59.067 --> 01:03:03.067
things and the question is
focused towards removal and
actual treatment.

958
01:03:03.067 --> 01:03:06.067
It really is Craig mentioned one
of the things

959
01:03:06.067 --> 01:03:12.067
you can do essentially now is
absorb it. We can observe it. We
can concentrate

960
01:03:12.067 --> 01:03:16.067
the system in the Aro -- in the
RO system. With

961
01:03:16.067 --> 01:03:17.067
exchange resins and activated
carbons.

962
01:03:17.067 --> 01:03:23.067
The technology going forward
actually obstructing the
compound.

963
01:03:23.067 --> 01:03:27.000
The research is ongoing there.
In particular

964
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:29.000
somebody with the different
methods.

965
01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:34.000
I think there is some
interesting research on the
horizon. Currently

966
01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:39.000
in terms of tried-and-true
methods to my knowledge,

967
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:44.000
most of it is absorption type
technologies. But I do believe

968
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:48.000
in the next 5 to 10 years that
we will have other technologies

969
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:52.000
that are solvable. Some that are
able to

970
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:55.000
be utilized. And issues within
aquifer is a part

971
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:59.000
of the treatment or treatment
public system for municipal
systems.

972
01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:05.000
>> Okay. So I have another
question here that are circling

973
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:07.000
around cost.

974
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:08.000
And I will try to go through
these.

975
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:10.000
Although many of them are
clustered together where they
can come in

976
01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:14.000
and different groupings here.
One group of questions is
looking at

977
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:19.000
the energy cost. Did you look at
the energy cost to operate

978
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:22.000
RO versus the GAC?

979
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:30.000
>> I guess that falls back on
me. I do not.

980
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:36.000
Look at energy costs, but
obviously with the RO you're
talking

981
01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:39.000
about a booster pump, and you
are also talking about

982
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:43.000
a pump to increase the pressure
in the household, so that in
itself

983
01:04:43.000 --> 01:04:49.000
pointed a lot higher energy
costs. However these are

984
01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:55.067
one 10 V plugs.

985
01:04:55.067 --> 01:05:01.067
These household systems are, you
just plug

986
01:05:01.067 --> 01:05:04.067
it into any of the -- any
electrical outlet. It's not like
you need a

987
01:05:04.067 --> 01:05:07.067
lot of electricity to run these.

988
01:05:07.067 --> 01:05:13.067
>> So yes, the

989
01:05:13.067 --> 01:05:17.067
RO would be more expensive on
the energy side. The carbon
would just

990
01:05:17.067 --> 01:05:21.067
be you introduce your well water
pump to push through the carbon

991
01:05:21.067 --> 01:05:24.067
take. And go directly into the
household.

992
01:05:24.067 --> 01:05:28.000
>> Okay. And so what about
instruction cost? Look at the

993
01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:31.000
average construction cost of the
unit.

994
01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:37.000
>> You mean as far as the one
actually

995
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:40.000
installing it as we did not.

996
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.000
Okay. Did you look at the annual

997
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:47.000
cost for maintaining the system?

998
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:53.000
So not just energy, but perhaps
periodic cost for cartridges

999
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:59.067
>> Yes as I mentioned in

1000
01:05:59.067 --> 01:06:04.067
the presentation, let's see,
it's probably early

1001
01:06:04.067 --> 01:06:09.067
on. Excuse me, I'm trying to get
to the right slide.

1002
01:06:09.067 --> 01:06:15.067
And to bring them system, at
least for the RO, you have

1003
01:06:15.067 --> 01:06:19.067
$10-$50 for replacement of the
filters and hundreds

1004
01:06:19.067 --> 01:06:24.067
of hundred 52 placement of the
RO membrane. The carbon

1005
01:06:24.067 --> 01:06:29.000
media, typically you would have
to have someone come into

1006
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:34.000
the household and change those
out for you. I know

1007
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:39.000
the carbon many fractures all
have facilities

1008
01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:45.000
where they can reactivate carbon
and

1009
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:50.000
in more or less incinerate the
P5 or destroy the

1010
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:53.000
P5 and still reuse the carbon.

1011
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:55.067
>> And it depends on what system
you're

1012
01:06:55.067 --> 01:06:58.067
talking about.

1013
01:06:58.067 --> 01:07:04.067
>> Okay for the GAC versus Aro
system. If you

1014
01:07:04.067 --> 01:07:10.067
are looking at meeting the PPT
are 70 ppt, what would

1015
01:07:10.067 --> 01:07:13.067
be the cost of treatment for
1000 gallons of water treated.
Did you

1016
01:07:13.067 --> 01:07:15.067
establish the comparison?

1017
01:07:15.067 --> 01:07:18.067
>> No we didn't.

1018
01:07:18.067 --> 01:07:24.067
>> Again this is preliminary
research.

1019
01:07:24.067 --> 01:07:29.000
We are just looking at how well
do these commercially available

1020
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:34.000
systems remove the PFAS. We
didn't actually do a

1021
01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:39.000
demonstration study. I did a
study in Missouri. On a

1022
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:45.000
Superfund site for lab removal
using RO and JC and we

1023
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:51.000
actually installed 30 systems
added 300 and we actually

1024
01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:56.067
got better idea of what all this
would cost.

1025
01:07:56.067 --> 01:08:01.067
>> But until you do that, you
can't really get a definitive
answer.

1026
01:08:01.067 --> 01:08:06.067
>> Okay we did have some coming
in with just

1027
01:08:06.067 --> 01:08:09.067
a clarifying statement. And I
believe something that Steve had

1028
01:08:09.067 --> 01:08:13.067
mentioned. This participant
states that it is the Whitefield
public

1029
01:08:13.067 --> 01:08:15.067
tricky water system, not
Whitefield.

1030
01:08:15.067 --> 01:08:20.067
They go on to then say that Air
Force also installed the smaller

1031
01:08:20.067 --> 01:08:24.067
system at a mobile home park and
they have operated

1032
01:08:24.067 --> 01:08:28.000
for a year with no
breakthrough of the lead or
[ Indiscernible ].

1033
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:32.000
I don't know if you're familiar
with that worker

1034
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:35.000
want to comment on it.

1035
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:40.000
>> No I thought I mentioned the
exchange.

1036
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.000
>> Systems that I saw was
Whitefield.

1037
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:48.000
I thought it was Whitefield and
not security. And I guess the
other

1038
01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:54.000
point is I would refer people to
think

1039
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.067
both the state website and the
county

1040
01:08:56.067 --> 01:09:00.067
website. There are links to the
various municipalities. And if
you

1041
01:09:00.067 --> 01:09:03.067
want to get specific information
on the performance of the
systems,

1042
01:09:03.067 --> 01:09:06.067
again on several months ago with
them in his about these are
doing,

1043
01:09:06.067 --> 01:09:09.067
I'm sure there's more up-to-date
information on whether using an

1044
01:09:09.067 --> 01:09:15.067
exchange resins and activated
carbon and what the

1045
01:09:15.067 --> 01:09:17.067
influence of affluent results
are for the treatment.

1046
01:09:17.067 --> 01:09:19.067
>> Okay, thank you.

1047
01:09:19.067 --> 01:09:23.067
>> We do have another Waller
quality question that came in.
Somebody

1048
01:09:23.067 --> 01:09:29.000
noticed that the maximum value
of arsenic is above the NCL

1049
01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:31.000
of 10 ppb.

1050
01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:35.000
They were just curious if you
drinking water is being treated
for arsenic.

1051
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:38.000
And also the notes to high
fluoride level with that water
be fluoridated.

1052
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:43.000
They are just looking to see if
this particular analytical
chemical

1053
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:46.000
qualities would influence the
treatment.

1054
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:52.000
>> Okay. The answer is

1055
01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:57.067
you know these were available on
the Colorado

1056
01:09:57.067 --> 01:10:02.067
Department of health environment
website. These are the worst
case.

1057
01:10:02.067 --> 01:10:07.067
So I pulled up things that may
not have been in

1058
01:10:07.067 --> 01:10:12.067
compliance. This is not typical
for that water

1059
01:10:12.067 --> 01:10:17.067
quality. It's just looking at at
of all the samples taken, these

1060
01:10:17.067 --> 01:10:23.067
are the worst concentration
levels. So

1061
01:10:23.067 --> 01:10:28.000
to answer your question, I don't
think the fluoride would have an

1062
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:34.000
impact on the PFAS removal. And

1063
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.000
arsenic.

1064
01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:42.000
It's a [ Indiscernible ] with
the RO system.

1065
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:47.000
Maybe effective for the arsenic
removal. But yeah, it's

1066
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:50.000
not going to impact the level.

1067
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:54.000
>> And the last or largest group

1068
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:57.067
of questions that I have in the
queue is centering around future

1069
01:10:57.067 --> 01:11:00.067
resource with the opportunities.

1070
01:11:00.067 --> 01:11:05.067
So a number of people want to
know where, if for

1071
01:11:05.067 --> 01:11:09.067
where EPA's going with future
repairs district resource
district research

1072
01:11:09.067 --> 01:11:12.067
in this area.

1073
01:11:12.067 --> 01:11:16.067
>> You know Steve mentioned the
study of the resins. Ideally

1074
01:11:16.067 --> 01:11:21.067
you would want the manufacturers
to come up with

1075
01:11:21.067 --> 01:11:26.067
their own system. You know that
would work for households,

1076
01:11:26.067 --> 01:11:30.000
and have been commercially
available. In

1077
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:38.000
our have seen a lot of systems
where they combined, they have
the

1078
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:41.000
exchange resins first followed
by carbon. And I think there's a

1079
01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:48.000
lot of opportunities out there
for you know, the water industry
to

1080
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:54.000
actually step in and start
selling these. Because

1081
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:59.067
it would make, it would make I
think a lot

1082
01:11:59.067 --> 01:12:07.067
of the people with contaminated
well water in these areas

1083
01:12:07.067 --> 01:12:09.067
to give a lot more peace of
mind.

1084
01:12:09.067 --> 01:12:13.067
As far as what we would do, we
would rely heavily on what's
available.

1085
01:12:13.067 --> 01:12:19.067
I know that NSF

1086
01:12:19.067 --> 01:12:25.067
is actually deciding not to move
forward with a P4 73.

1087
01:12:25.067 --> 01:12:33.000
There actually going to valid
the

1088
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:37.000
PFOS contaminants into an is 53
health effects for Carmen. And

1089
01:12:37.000 --> 01:12:43.000
also for NSF 58 for reverse
osmosis. So there could

1090
01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:46.000
treated much like a lot of other
contaminants.

1091
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:48.000
>> With the other NSF standards.

1092
01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:53.000
>> So ideally we would continue
to try to

1093
01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:57.067
come up with at least from a
research perspective and the
office

1094
01:12:57.067 --> 01:13:00.067
of research and development come
up with the best available
household

1095
01:13:00.067 --> 01:13:06.067
treatment technology to solve
these problems. And it's obvious

1096
01:13:06.067 --> 01:13:11.067
that it's a moving target. We
started this back in 2016.

1097
01:13:11.067 --> 01:13:16.067
Present wasn't even on the
radar, but now it is. So I think
that's

1098
01:13:16.067 --> 01:13:22.067
a key area we can move into as
far as assisting homeowners.

1099
01:13:22.067 --> 01:13:26.067
>> Okay. And the final question,

1100
01:13:26.067 --> 01:13:32.000
is actually been a number of
people who have -- had great

1101
01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:36.000
research with you but they're
going to do research on their
own

1102
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:39.000
and department with you, so if
someone is interested, in
working

1103
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.000
with you, what is the best way
to reach out to you?

1104
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:49.000
>> The government

1105
01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:54.000
typically can develop
cooperative research and
development

1106
01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:59.000
agreements with private industry

1107
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:05.000
or anybody who is interested.
Academia.

1108
01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:10.000
You know, I think the best way
would be for them to email me or

1109
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:14.000
Steve to sort of spell out what
kind of research you're thinking

1110
01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:18.000
about doing. So that we could
take all this seriously.

1111
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.000
Moving forward.

1112
01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:25.000
>> Okay.

1113
01:14:25.000 --> 01:14:29.000
Any final thoughts you want to
leave the audience with?

1114
01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:35.000
>> Well this is Steve, I would
just say the question was as

1115
01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:42.000
far as PFAS goes, it's fair to
say that this is

1116
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:45.000
an agency priority. There's a
lot going on in the research
side of

1117
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:50.000
things. And see what RLD is
doing from a problematic aspect
of.

1118
01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:55.067
Were looking at steps to
evaluate the need for MDL for
things like

1119
01:14:55.067 --> 01:14:59.067
[ Indiscernible ] designating
them as substances. And

1120
01:14:59.067 --> 01:15:04.067
then developing cleanup
recommendations. Also that's
problematically

1121
01:15:04.067 --> 01:15:09.067
a number of things that are
going on. We are doing a lot of
research

1122
01:15:09.067 --> 01:15:13.067
on toxicity components. So I
think you will be seeing new
talks value

1123
01:15:13.067 --> 01:15:18.067
for things like General X and
FDS and some of the other newer
compounds

1124
01:15:18.067 --> 01:15:24.067
that have come into our sites
here more recently. And then
just on

1125
01:15:24.067 --> 01:15:29.000
the analytical side, as Craig
mentioned, and region five,

1126
01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:30.000
was instrumental in helping us.

1127
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.000
They're doing a lot of
development in the HDLC
technologies. I think

1128
01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:38.000
originally we can see something
around 15 compounds in this
class

1129
01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:43.000
of materials with upwards of
3000 or more. So there's

1130
01:15:43.000 --> 01:15:48.000
a lot to go on the analytical
side. We are working on some
assays

1131
01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:52.000
and other things and more
broadly looking at it

1132
01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:58.067
also looking at the analytical
methodologies for chasing down
specific compounds.

1133
01:15:58.067 --> 01:16:01.067
So there's work there as well.
His work on developing values,
so there's

1134
01:16:01.067 --> 01:16:07.067
a lot of opportunities for
research as an agency priority,
and I think

1135
01:16:07.067 --> 01:16:10.067
it will continue to be for the
foreseeable future.

1136
01:16:10.067 --> 01:16:13.067
>> All right. Excellent.

1137
01:16:13.067 --> 01:16:17.067
With those closing words, let me
go ahead and walk through

1138
01:16:17.067 --> 01:16:21.067
just a few final reminders
before we go ahead and
officially and today's

1139
01:16:21.067 --> 01:16:27.000
live broadcast.

1140
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:30.000
To the first thing I would like
to do is think our two speakers

1141
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.000
for joining us today. I want to
thank Steve and Craig for
sharing

1142
01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:34.000
their information on this
project.

1143
01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:37.000
I also want to thank the over
322 individuals who joined us
from all

1144
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:40.000
over the United States for the
live broadcast. Just walk
through a couple

1145
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:46.000
quick reminders here. That if
you would like to ask is copies
of the

1146
01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:49.000
presentation content, look for
contact information

1147
01:16:49.000 --> 01:16:52.000
to follow up with Craig or
Steve, you will find all of that
available

1148
01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:53.000
after national on the similar
homepage.

1149
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:56.067
So this currently hyperlink's on
the middle right of your screen

1150
01:16:56.067 --> 01:16:59.067
under related URLs. As a shared
that with you and they you -- in

1151
01:16:59.067 --> 01:17:04.067
the Q&A window. Today's session
it will was recorded and you
will

1152
01:17:04.067 --> 01:17:09.067
get it copy. And if you want to
follow the

1153
01:17:09.067 --> 01:17:13.067
links the Q&A window and related
URLs for the resources.

1154
01:17:13.067 --> 01:17:17.067
>> Plus you can take it brief
moment to fill out the

1155
01:17:17.067 --> 01:17:20.067
online feedback form to let us
know what you thought of the
delivery

1156
01:17:20.067 --> 01:17:24.067
that we offer but the content
that we covered as well as a way
to share

1157
01:17:24.067 --> 01:17:28.000
today's information. One of us,
questions with the webinars, is

1158
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:37.000
if we offer CEU's or pH is very
well we don't

1159
01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:40.000
necessarily offer the credit
hours. We do offer

1160
01:17:40.000 --> 01:17:42.000
a certificate for participating
in the webinar. Many
participants

1161
01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:44.000
are able to take that
certificate along with
registration confirmation

1162
01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:46.000
and make copies of the materials
or a printout of the similar
homepage

1163
01:17:46.000 --> 01:17:51.000
and get enough credit or
document Tatian for joining so
they get credit

1164
01:17:51.000 --> 01:17:54.000
for hours for the own
institution.

1165
01:17:54.000 --> 01:17:56.067
>> So if you're looking for one
of the certificates, you will be

1166
01:17:56.067 --> 01:17:59.067
able to access it by filling out
the online feedback form and you

1167
01:17:59.067 --> 01:18:02.067
will find that on the right side
of your screen. Once you fill
out

1168
01:18:02.067 --> 01:18:04.067
the form, make sure you check
the box the bottom to confirm
you are

1169
01:18:04.067 --> 01:18:15.067
here for the entire session and
replay the entire arcade,

1170
01:18:15.067 --> 01:18:18.067
and when she submit the form you
ultimately have access to the
certificate

1171
01:18:18.067 --> 01:18:21.067
form that you can then either
print out or save for your own
records.

1172
01:18:21.067 --> 01:18:23.067
>> If you happen to join today's
group of individuals, each
person

1173
01:18:23.067 --> 01:18:25.067
can actually thought that
feedback form on their own
independent of

1174
01:18:25.067 --> 01:18:27.000
the education status to get the
certificate. So again if you
joined

1175
01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:30.000
the colleague under the
registration, you can fill out
the form on your

1176
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:31.000
own to get your own certificate.

1177
01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:34.000
>> So, with that, again thank
you very much to our presenters
as well

1178
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:37.000
as a live audience joined us for
today's session. I hope that you

1179
01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:42.000
found this to be a valuable
expenditure of the time, and
that we would either

1180
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:45.000
see you or hear from you on
future webinar for this with

1181
01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:50.000
a formal conclusion for the live
broadcast today.