WEBVTT 176 00:00:00.067 --> 00:00:01.067 and turn things over to 177 00:00:01.067 --> 00:00:02.067 your session facilitator, Jim Rice 178 00:00:02.067 --> 00:00:05.067 from ICS. Jim? 179 00:00:05.067 --> 00:00:08.067 >> 180 00:00:08.067 --> 00:00:10.067 Thank 181 00:00:10.067 --> 00:00:12.067 you for joining us today. As Jean 182 00:00:12.067 --> 00:00:13.067 mentioned I am Jim Rice and I'm 183 00:00:13.067 --> 00:00:16.067 your session moderator. It looks 184 00:00:16.067 --> 00:00:19.067 like we have pretty good 185 00:00:19.067 --> 00:00:21.067 crowd with 150 that register. And 186 00:00:21.067 --> 00:00:22.067 a good #on today from all across 187 00:00:22.067 --> 00:00:25.067 the country. We have great group 188 00:00:25.067 --> 00:00:27.067 of speakers today that will we 189 00:00:27.067 --> 00:00:29.067 will introduce in a second. I would 190 00:00:29.067 --> 00:00:32.067 like to say a few words about this 191 00:00:32.067 --> 00:00:34.067 ORD well but series. 192 00:00:34.067 --> 00:00:35.067 EPA office of research and development 193 00:00:35.067 --> 00:00:37.000 designed the series of webinars 194 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:40.000 to explore some of the challenges 195 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:41.000 that we face when 196 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:42.000 dealing with these mining sites 197 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:43.000 and mineral processing facilities. 198 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.000 Those who are familiar or ID EPA 199 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:51.067 research arm and they help inform 200 00:00:51.067 --> 00:00:52.067 agency decisions through their 201 00:00:52.067 --> 00:00:54.067 research. The objective of the seminar 202 00:00:54.067 --> 00:00:57.067 is to both inform you, the practitioners 203 00:00:57.067 --> 00:01:00.067 and 204 00:01:00.067 --> 00:01:02.067 stakeholders in this type of work 205 00:01:02.067 --> 00:01:03.067 about the latest tools and methodologies 206 00:01:03.067 --> 00:01:04.067 available. Also to understand your 207 00:01:04.067 --> 00:01:07.067 need for research and further development. 208 00:01:07.067 --> 00:01:10.067 The webinar is designed to be just 209 00:01:10.067 --> 00:01:12.067 like a 210 00:01:12.067 --> 00:01:15.067 technical conference so we would 211 00:01:15.067 --> 00:01:16.067 like your input. In light of 212 00:01:16.067 --> 00:01:19.067 getting that feedback the speakers 213 00:01:19.067 --> 00:01:25.067 in webinar teams 214 00:01:25.067 --> 00:01:27.067 created a webinar series to get 215 00:01:27.067 --> 00:01:29.067 your input throughout the presentations. 216 00:01:29.067 --> 00:01:32.067 To get you warmed up what we would 217 00:01:32.067 --> 00:01:35.067 like to do is give you 218 00:01:35.067 --> 00:01:37.000 a preliminary question. 219 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:40.000 You will see a question on the 220 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.000 screen and 221 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:44.000 what we would like you to do is 222 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:47.000 type in a response at the bottom 223 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:50.067 of the page in this box at the very 224 00:01:50.067 --> 00:01:59.067 bottom. 225 00:01:59.067 --> 00:02:01.067 I will give you one 226 00:02:01.067 --> 00:02:02.067 minute to do that. You'll be able 227 00:02:02.067 --> 00:02:04.067 to see how others respond. If you 228 00:02:04.067 --> 00:02:06.067 see an answer that you like or that 229 00:02:06.067 --> 00:02:08.067 you agree with you can click that 230 00:02:08.067 --> 00:02:10.067 plus one button to agree with someone 231 00:02:10.067 --> 00:02:13.067 else's response. You can see that 232 00:02:13.067 --> 00:02:15.067 all of the comments are 233 00:02:15.067 --> 00:02:17.067 ranked by popularity. I will give 234 00:02:17.067 --> 00:02:20.067 you just a minute to click something 235 00:02:20.067 --> 00:02:23.067 in. 236 00:02:23.067 --> 00:02:25.067 It 237 00:02:25.067 --> 00:02:28.067 looks like we are developing an 238 00:02:28.067 --> 00:02:31.067 understanding. You can see some 239 00:02:31.067 --> 00:02:33.067 of the survey responses that 240 00:02:33.067 --> 00:02:35.067 there are quite a few challenges 241 00:02:35.067 --> 00:02:38.000 that we face with these mining sites. 242 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.000 Now we're 243 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.000 getting a lot of responses. Some 244 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.000 of these include the type and 245 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.000 distribution of the sources, the 246 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:54.000 immense size of our mining sites, 247 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:55.000 interactions between sources and 248 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.000 groundwater and unstable conditions 249 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.000 that we face at the sites along 250 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.000 with the potential, very large cleanup 251 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.000 costs. To address the challenges 252 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.000 we have to be more 253 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:08.000 aggressive ways 254 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.000 starting from site characterization 255 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.000 through long-term closure. 256 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:22.000 They may include 257 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:23.000 data management tools. Planning 258 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.000 for these unique emergency responses 259 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:26.000 at mind sites. Apply adaptive management 260 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:28.000 structures to achieve effective 261 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.000 remediation. Over the next several 262 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.000 weeks the series 263 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:35.000 of talks will bring together some 264 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:40.934 experts to explore the latest thinking 265 00:03:40.934 --> 00:03:41.934 in all of these areas. 266 00:03:41.934 --> 00:03:42.934 Your job is to listen, digest and 267 00:03:42.934 --> 00:03:46.934 respond to this information and 268 00:03:46.934 --> 00:03:50.000 give your feedback. 269 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:52.000 >> Today session, the focus will 270 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.000 be on emergency response at mind 271 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.000 sites. Our first presentation is 272 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.000 from Lily Tavassoli is a Project 273 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:00.000 Manager with EPA Region 9?s San 274 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:02.000 Francisco office. For 10 years she 275 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:03.000 has managed a variety of NPL sites- 276 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:05.000 primarily large-scale abandoned 277 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:06.000 mines. She holds a B.S. in environmental 278 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.000 science, policy, and environmental 279 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.000 economics from the University of 280 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.000 California, Davis.. 281 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.000 Next we will take a 282 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.000 look at 283 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:28.000 some 284 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:32.000 -- Tom is a chemical 285 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.000 engineer with our team and were 286 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:35.000 some response actions at Superfund 287 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.934 sites throughout the country. Next 288 00:04:37.934 --> 00:04:38.934 Tom Kady, 289 00:04:38.934 --> 00:04:41.934 EPA Environmental Response Team, 290 00:04:41.934 --> 00:04:47.934 kady.thomas@epa.gov. Dr. Goss is 291 00:04:47.934 --> 00:04:51.000 a principal engineer 292 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.000 and his work focuses on tunneling, 293 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.000 under grinding mine design and 294 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:06.000 underground rehabilitation. 295 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:07.000 Carrie Byrne is a final speaker 296 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:09.000 this afternoon and he will talk 297 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:10.000 about some of the challenges and 298 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.000 solutions for managing legacy uranium 299 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:19.000 mines on tribal lands. 300 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:25.000 We encourage you to accurately 301 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.000 participate in the discussions 302 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.000 by asking questions, responding 303 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.000 to the poll questions throughout 304 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.000 the sessions. If 305 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:33.000 we're ready to get started I would 306 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.000 like to turn the presentation over 307 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000 to her for speaker Lily Tavassoli. 308 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.934 Lily? 309 00:05:38.934 --> 00:05:40.934 >> Thank you and good morning and 310 00:05:40.934 --> 00:05:42.934 good afternoon to everybody on the 311 00:05:42.934 --> 00:05:44.934 phone. I'm happy to be heard talking 312 00:05:44.934 --> 00:05:47.934 to you all today about the iron 313 00:05:47.934 --> 00:05:50.000 mountain 314 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:51.000 mine Superfund site located in 315 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:54.000 northern California. I will spend 316 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.000 the first portion of today's talk 317 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.000 just setting up the background history 318 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.000 and remediation status of 319 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.000 iron mountain mine. Next I will 320 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:05.000 talk about 321 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.000 the various emergency responses 322 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.000 that we have encountered at the 323 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:14.000 site but more specifically the 2018 324 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.000 Carr Fire. 325 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.000 Next I will talk about the lessons 326 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.000 learned from the 327 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:24.000 emergency response and 328 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.000 planning perspective. To provide 329 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.000 some contact for where 330 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:30.000 iron mountain mine is it is located 331 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.000 in northern California in one of 332 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:35.000 the most critical watersheds in 333 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:38.000 the state. Out 334 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.000 complex water management 335 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.000 system that consists of multiple 336 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.000 dams but the shaft of the dam which 337 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:44.000 provides over 20 % of the states 338 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.000 drinking water. This feeds into 339 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:49.067 the Sacramento 340 00:06:49.067 --> 00:06:51.067 River which reason to the San Francisco 341 00:06:51.067 --> 00:06:54.067 bay and are used for many agricultural 342 00:06:54.067 --> 00:06:57.067 uses and 343 00:06:57.067 --> 00:07:00.067 is critical watersheds for the state 344 00:07:00.067 --> 00:07:03.067 of California. 345 00:07:03.067 --> 00:07:06.067 The history of the site, 346 00:07:06.067 --> 00:07:09.067 iron mountain mine is a 347 00:07:09.067 --> 00:07:12.067 44 acre 348 00:07:12.067 --> 00:07:15.067 land 349 00:07:15.067 --> 00:07:18.067 at the top of the Sacramento River. 350 00:07:18.067 --> 00:07:21.067 It was mind for a period 351 00:07:21.067 --> 00:07:24.067 of nearly 100 years 352 00:07:24.067 --> 00:07:27.067 for various metals. 353 00:07:27.067 --> 00:07:30.067 Its impact led to historic discharges 354 00:07:30.067 --> 00:07:33.067 into the Sacramento 355 00:07:33.067 --> 00:07:36.067 River of 6 tons of that. 356 00:07:36.067 --> 00:07:41.000 5 tons was iron and 1 ton 357 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:43.000 copper, cadmium and zinc. To give 358 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.000 you an idea of the scale of the 359 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.000 impact this was a very detrimental 360 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.067 issue for the sacramental River 361 00:07:50.067 --> 00:07:53.067 and especially 362 00:07:53.067 --> 00:07:56.067 the aquatic populations and threatened 363 00:07:56.067 --> 00:07:57.067 and 364 00:07:57.067 --> 00:07:59.067 endangered species of fish. Next 365 00:07:59.067 --> 00:08:02.067 we will look at 1983 and in two 366 00:08:02.067 --> 00:08:05.067 minutes I will summarize 30 years 367 00:08:05.067 --> 00:08:08.067 of Superfund response work. 368 00:08:08.067 --> 00:08:09.067 One of the unique things 369 00:08:09.067 --> 00:08:11.067 about iron mountain that I'd like 370 00:08:11.067 --> 00:08:13.067 to mention is that we are very special 371 00:08:13.067 --> 00:08:15.067 and fortunate to have the words 372 00:08:15.067 --> 00:08:18.067 world worse creative water with 373 00:08:18.067 --> 00:08:21.067 a negative PhD in at least one of 374 00:08:21.067 --> 00:08:24.067 our 375 00:08:24.067 --> 00:08:26.067 mine. You 376 00:08:26.067 --> 00:08:28.067 can imagine if you put that on a 377 00:08:28.067 --> 00:08:30.067 scale of 6 tons of heavy metals 378 00:08:30.067 --> 00:08:32.067 per day we have really bad drainage 379 00:08:32.067 --> 00:08:35.067 problem, not diluted with winter 380 00:08:35.067 --> 00:08:37.000 flows and height magnitude and scale 381 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.000 of impact regionally from the single 382 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:49.067 mine site. 383 00:08:49.067 --> 00:08:51.067 To summarize the remediation 384 00:08:51.067 --> 00:08:52.067 that is taken place over the last 385 00:08:52.067 --> 00:08:55.067 30 years EPA has invested significantly 386 00:08:55.067 --> 00:08:58.067 in the site and spent a lot of money 387 00:08:58.067 --> 00:09:04.067 using 388 00:09:04.067 --> 00:09:05.067 a lot of remedies. We have one 389 00:09:05.067 --> 00:09:07.067 remedy that is approximated at $5 390 00:09:07.067 --> 00:09:09.067 billion. We restart settlement that 391 00:09:09.067 --> 00:09:10.067 provides for 30 years of treatment 392 00:09:10.067 --> 00:09:12.067 and provided for second portion 393 00:09:12.067 --> 00:09:13.067 of that [ Indiscernible ] that would 394 00:09:13.067 --> 00:09:16.067 provide funds for treatment for 395 00:09:16.067 --> 00:09:19.067 the next 396 00:09:19.067 --> 00:09:22.067 phase of the project. We have a 397 00:09:22.067 --> 00:09:25.067 wonderful site operator who 398 00:09:25.067 --> 00:09:33.067 does a very good job 399 00:09:33.067 --> 00:09:35.067 staffing the site 24 hours a day, 400 00:09:35.067 --> 00:09:37.000 365 days a year to implement a remedy 401 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:38.000 that costs approximately $5 million 402 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.000 per year to implement. How effective 403 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.000 is it remedy? Very. In the course 404 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.000 of the five interim remedy set up 405 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.000 and implemented at the site this 406 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:49.067 has led to a 97 % reduction of metals 407 00:09:49.067 --> 00:09:51.067 leaving 408 00:09:51.067 --> 00:09:53.067 iron mountain Superfund site. Just 409 00:09:53.067 --> 00:09:55.067 to give you a very brief overview 410 00:09:55.067 --> 00:09:58.067 of what that system consists of 411 00:09:58.067 --> 00:10:01.067 we capture collect and convey for 412 00:10:01.067 --> 00:10:05.067 treatment 413 00:10:05.067 --> 00:10:07.067 acid mine drainage from four primary 414 00:10:07.067 --> 00:10:09.067 sources at the site. Specifically 415 00:10:09.067 --> 00:10:12.067 we have two underground mines that 416 00:10:12.067 --> 00:10:15.067 we capture and collect, 417 00:10:15.067 --> 00:10:18.067 Richman and Glassman mine 418 00:10:18.067 --> 00:10:23.067 and two other sources. 419 00:10:23.067 --> 00:10:26.067 The call for cinemas over which 420 00:10:26.067 --> 00:10:29.067 captures a lot of seepage and 421 00:10:29.067 --> 00:10:32.067 various portals 422 00:10:32.067 --> 00:10:34.067 and acid 423 00:10:34.067 --> 00:10:35.067 mine drainage coming off the mountainside 424 00:10:35.067 --> 00:10:37.000 is collected here and we also have 425 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.000 a source where we pump out submerged 426 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:43.000 [ Indiscernible ] and that all 427 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:45.000 goes into from all 428 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.067 core sources and lead into high 429 00:10:48.067 --> 00:10:51.067 density [ Indiscernible ] lines 430 00:10:51.067 --> 00:10:53.067 that convey this acid mine 431 00:10:53.067 --> 00:10:56.067 drainage down the mountain several 432 00:10:56.067 --> 00:10:59.067 miles to our treatment plant. 433 00:10:59.067 --> 00:11:02.067 Capturing and collecting 434 00:11:02.067 --> 00:11:04.067 four sources of acid mine ranging 435 00:11:04.067 --> 00:11:06.067 ranging from a less that one pH2 436 00:11:06.067 --> 00:11:09.067 a little less than pH 3 conveying 437 00:11:09.067 --> 00:11:12.067 that here to our Minnesota 438 00:11:12.067 --> 00:11:14.067 flash treatment plans, 439 00:11:14.067 --> 00:11:16.067 high density treatment plant where 440 00:11:16.067 --> 00:11:18.067 we precipitate the heavy metals 441 00:11:18.067 --> 00:11:21.067 and feed them to our sludge drying 442 00:11:21.067 --> 00:11:24.067 ponds where we bake out in the 443 00:11:24.067 --> 00:11:27.067 sun, 150 degrees summer heat 444 00:11:27.067 --> 00:11:30.067 over the course of the summer and 445 00:11:30.067 --> 00:11:33.067 then we hold that up to Rick 446 00:11:33.067 --> 00:11:34.067 flat pit 447 00:11:34.067 --> 00:11:37.000 which is been repurposed into our 448 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:43.000 sludge disposal 449 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:45.000 landfill. That 450 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.000 is a very brief summary of how the 451 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:48.067 remedy it on mountain mine works. 452 00:11:48.067 --> 00:11:50.067 The point is to provide some perspective 453 00:11:50.067 --> 00:11:52.067 on just the scale and impact of 454 00:11:52.067 --> 00:11:53.067 the site and if you can imagine 455 00:11:53.067 --> 00:11:55.067 that over 250 million gallons of 456 00:11:55.067 --> 00:11:57.067 water per year that we treat was 457 00:11:57.067 --> 00:12:00.067 released during an emergency response 458 00:12:00.067 --> 00:12:02.067 event that 459 00:12:02.067 --> 00:12:05.067 we were unable to capture successfully. 460 00:12:05.067 --> 00:12:07.067 That would be 461 00:12:07.067 --> 00:12:10.067 huge and detrimental to the Sacramento 462 00:12:10.067 --> 00:12:13.067 River. 463 00:12:13.067 --> 00:12:15.067 Next I will move on to 464 00:12:15.067 --> 00:12:17.067 talk about the extreme weather 465 00:12:17.067 --> 00:12:20.067 events that have taken place at 466 00:12:20.067 --> 00:12:22.067 the site. To have been a number 467 00:12:22.067 --> 00:12:24.067 over the course of the years but 468 00:12:24.067 --> 00:12:27.067 I will focus on mostly the 2018 469 00:12:27.067 --> 00:12:32.067 Carr Fire. 470 00:12:32.067 --> 00:12:33.067 We've had a number of flaws at the 471 00:12:33.067 --> 00:12:35.067 site which have taken out significant 472 00:12:35.067 --> 00:12:37.000 site infrastructure and we have 473 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:40.000 had significant fires. Until 2018 474 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.000 we have see the level of widespread 475 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:44.000 impact 476 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:47.000 both to the site and the regionally 477 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.000 that we saw in the Carr Fire. Many 478 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.000 folks nationally are aware that 479 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.000 the fire hit 480 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.000 in July of 2018 and wasn't fully 481 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.000 out until August 30th of 2018 482 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:03.000 and was one of the most destructive 483 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.000 fires in state history and 484 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.000 burned over 230.000 acres. 485 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.000 There was a number of fatalities 486 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.000 and over 1500 structures 487 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.000 destroyed in the fires to put it 488 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.000 in regional context. That was devastating 489 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.000 to the area 490 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.000 for iron mountain mine this came 491 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.000 through very quickly for us and 492 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.000 had very serious impacts for the 493 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.000 plate. I will summarize those impacts 494 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.000 really briefly. It was multiple 495 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.000 levels of concern. We have, 496 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.934 when the fire and hit 497 00:13:37.934 --> 00:13:42.934 iron mountain mine and 498 00:13:42.934 --> 00:13:44.934 affected the 440 acre property 499 00:13:44.934 --> 00:13:45.934 to were concerned about a couple 500 00:13:45.934 --> 00:13:49.000 of things. First was a protection 501 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:58.000 of the treatment plan 502 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.000 which is 503 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.000 a critical piece of the site infrastructure. 504 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.000 You can capture and collect acid 505 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:05.000 mine drainage but if you don't have 506 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:06.000 a treatment system to treat it you 507 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:08.000 will overwhelm your storage capacity 508 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:09.000 and eventually be putting that AMD 509 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:10.000 directly into the Sacramento River. 510 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.000 We were concerned about that but 511 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.000 we had five operators who stayed 512 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.000 at the site and protected the 513 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.000 site and prepared the site to be 514 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:20.000 locked down. We stopped acid mine 515 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.000 drainage treatment and started 516 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:32.000 switching over to 517 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:33.000 our storage area where we were 518 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.000 able to have approximately 14 days 519 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:36.934 of AMD storage. We also anticipated 520 00:14:36.934 --> 00:14:37.934 losing power to the site which was 521 00:14:37.934 --> 00:14:39.934 another reason we stopped treatment. 522 00:14:39.934 --> 00:14:40.934 We relied on our AMD storage. We 523 00:14:40.934 --> 00:14:41.934 had the help of firefighter crews 524 00:14:41.934 --> 00:14:44.934 who stayed overnight to protect 525 00:14:44.934 --> 00:14:46.934 the plant and 526 00:14:46.934 --> 00:14:49.000 you can see the image on the left 527 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.000 just how close it came to the treatment 528 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.000 plant from inside the administrative 529 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.000 building which is located 530 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.000 in the treatment plant area. We 531 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.000 also had a concern about 532 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.000 the loss of aboveground infrastructure. 533 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.000 I mentioned that we convey acid 534 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.000 mine drainage to the treatment plan 535 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.000 via HDP lines. The majority are 536 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.000 buried underground 537 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.000 which turned out to be a huge 538 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.000 asset for us because we would've 539 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.000 lost the majority of our infrastructure 540 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.000 had that not been the case. There 541 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.000 are specific areas those lines do 542 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.000 come aboveground. The photo on the 543 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:30.000 right is an image of a firefighter 544 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.000 fighting one of these areas where 545 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.000 some of these flows are directed 546 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.934 over Atlanta due to being run over 547 00:15:36.934 --> 00:15:39.934 a landslide which can move 548 00:15:39.934 --> 00:15:42.934 slightly and significantly 549 00:15:42.934 --> 00:15:43.934 throughout the year. 550 00:15:43.934 --> 00:15:45.934 The loss of aboveground infrastructure 551 00:15:45.934 --> 00:15:47.934 was something that we thought was 552 00:15:47.934 --> 00:15:50.000 important to get a handle on very 553 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.000 quickly. Just the immediate threats 554 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:59.000 that kept coming to mind we 555 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:00.000 took people 556 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.000 with gasoline deliveries before 557 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.000 the fire started in anticipation 558 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:05.000 that we would lose power to the 559 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.000 site. One of our fires was right 560 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:10.000 next to one of our gasoline tanks 561 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:11.000 so the risk to folks 562 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:13.000 and the risk to the treatment infrastructure 563 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:15.000 of having that happen was also a 564 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.000 big deal but as the fire passed 565 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:19.000 through the site we moved past this 566 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.000 preliminary active fire period and 567 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.000 had a chance to assess what was 568 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:35.000 going on. 569 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:36.067 In that day or two after the fire 570 00:16:36.067 --> 00:16:37.000 passed through the site we started 571 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:39.000 establishing a baseline of impact 572 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.000 and discovered what turned out to 573 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:42.000 be the biggest issue of all. We 574 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.000 had an area where the HDPE line 575 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:45.000 came aboveground and entered the 576 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.000 Richmond mine portal. This is one 577 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.067 of our sources of acid line drainage 578 00:16:48.067 --> 00:16:51.067 that we collect. Runs underground 579 00:16:51.067 --> 00:16:52.067 is several hundred feet back into 580 00:16:52.067 --> 00:16:55.067 the mine working where it collects 581 00:16:55.067 --> 00:17:04.067 acid mine drainage via the underground 582 00:17:04.067 --> 00:17:05.067 HDPE line to our treatment system. 583 00:17:05.067 --> 00:17:07.067 We found that this HDPE line was 584 00:17:07.067 --> 00:17:10.067 on fire and going back towards the 585 00:17:10.067 --> 00:17:12.067 or body inside 586 00:17:12.067 --> 00:17:14.067 of the mind. This led to activation 587 00:17:14.067 --> 00:17:16.067 of our emergency response team and 588 00:17:16.067 --> 00:17:18.067 really the whole incident command 589 00:17:18.067 --> 00:17:20.067 structure that comes along with 590 00:17:20.067 --> 00:17:23.067 that. It wasn't an assistant within 591 00:17:23.067 --> 00:17:28.067 a much larger 592 00:17:28.067 --> 00:17:30.067 Carr Fire incident. We were concerned 593 00:17:30.067 --> 00:17:31.067 about this for a number of reasons. 594 00:17:31.067 --> 00:17:33.067 We didn't exactly know the level 595 00:17:33.067 --> 00:17:36.067 of impact and there are many reasons 596 00:17:36.067 --> 00:17:38.000 but it was unlikely the 597 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.000 ore body would actually ignite. 598 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.000 We know the impact of having a 599 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:46.000 per Riddick or body be on fire 600 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.067 in an area with approximately 25 601 00:17:49.067 --> 00:17:50.067 miles of collapse and partially 602 00:17:50.067 --> 00:17:55.400 open underground workings would 603 00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:03.234 have some severe consequences. 604 00:18:03.234 --> 00:18:19.067 We assess ways to put out the fire 605 00:18:19.067 --> 00:18:21.067 and I am summarizing a really huge 606 00:18:21.067 --> 00:18:23.067 response in a couple of minutes 607 00:18:23.067 --> 00:18:24.067 but what I will say is basically 608 00:18:24.067 --> 00:18:25.067 we implemented a multi-pronged approach 609 00:18:25.067 --> 00:18:27.067 where we develop several alternatives 610 00:18:27.067 --> 00:18:28.067 for how to extinguish the fire as 611 00:18:28.067 --> 00:18:30.067 it slowly moved further back into 612 00:18:30.067 --> 00:18:31.067 the mine. We took our resources 613 00:18:31.067 --> 00:18:33.067 as we receive them and ultimately 614 00:18:33.067 --> 00:18:34.067 after sending in two robots which 615 00:18:34.067 --> 00:18:36.067 got stuck we did personal injuries 616 00:18:36.067 --> 00:18:38.000 and extinguish the fire at something 617 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.000 like 3:30 A.M. You can imagine also 618 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.000 this is in the middle of an active 619 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.000 fire zone. The whole region is devastated 620 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:44.000 and their responders coming from 621 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.000 all over the country just to deal 622 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.067 with a very active fire which was 623 00:18:49.067 --> 00:18:52.067 still growing in perimeter. 624 00:18:52.067 --> 00:18:53.067 This is obviously more complicated 625 00:18:53.067 --> 00:18:55.067 and a longer story but I'm summarizing 626 00:18:55.067 --> 00:18:57.067 it here to just help provide context 627 00:18:57.067 --> 00:19:00.067 for some of art lessons learned. 628 00:19:00.067 --> 00:19:03.067 I will move on and 629 00:19:03.067 --> 00:19:05.067 before I get into lessons 630 00:19:05.067 --> 00:19:08.067 learned I want to look at the right 631 00:19:08.067 --> 00:19:09.067 side of the page and the happy news 632 00:19:09.067 --> 00:19:11.067 here is throughout this fire we 633 00:19:11.067 --> 00:19:14.067 did not to lose, capture and collection 634 00:19:14.067 --> 00:19:17.067 of acid mine 635 00:19:17.067 --> 00:19:18.067 drainage. The redundancies that 636 00:19:18.067 --> 00:19:20.067 we have built into the system, under 637 00:19:20.067 --> 00:19:23.067 grounding of the AMD line, built 638 00:19:23.067 --> 00:19:26.067 in storage that we have 639 00:19:26.067 --> 00:19:28.067 capability to use 640 00:19:28.067 --> 00:19:29.067 in an emergency meant that we just 641 00:19:29.067 --> 00:19:32.067 had to hold flows for approximately 642 00:19:32.067 --> 00:19:37.000 one week 643 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:38.000 until we could start running off 644 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.000 generators and until then power 645 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.000 was restored. We had minimal infrastructure 646 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.000 loss relative to the scale in nature 647 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:50.067 of the 648 00:19:50.067 --> 00:19:52.067 emergency. We had a lot of 649 00:19:52.067 --> 00:19:54.067 repairs to had to be done over the 650 00:19:54.067 --> 00:19:56.067 course of the fault but we were 651 00:19:56.067 --> 00:19:57.067 ready for the winter and we had 652 00:19:57.067 --> 00:19:59.067 a very difficult winter in the months 653 00:19:59.067 --> 00:20:00.067 following the Carr Fire. In general 654 00:20:00.067 --> 00:20:02.067 it could've been much worse and 655 00:20:02.067 --> 00:20:04.067 the core component of our treatment 656 00:20:04.067 --> 00:20:10.067 system and infrastructure were intact. 657 00:20:10.067 --> 00:20:11.067 I don't know if success is 658 00:20:11.067 --> 00:20:14.067 the right word but we certainly 659 00:20:14.067 --> 00:20:17.067 were prepared 660 00:20:17.067 --> 00:20:18.100 and I will talk about a couple 661 00:20:18.100 --> 00:20:19.167 of the things that made us more 662 00:20:19.167 --> 00:20:21.067 prepared here. 663 00:20:21.067 --> 00:20:23.067 >> With the respect to the emergency 664 00:20:23.067 --> 00:20:26.067 response inside the Richmond mine 665 00:20:26.067 --> 00:20:29.067 portal and fire 666 00:20:29.067 --> 00:20:31.067 there is a couple of a specific 667 00:20:31.067 --> 00:20:34.067 lessons learned but I wanted to 668 00:20:34.067 --> 00:20:37.000 share, 669 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:39.000 relationships for resources, we 670 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:40.000 spent almost a full day of a very 671 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.000 high pressure situation on the phone 672 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.000 nationally with any organization 673 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:49.067 and private mining company 674 00:20:49.067 --> 00:20:58.067 or federal agency 675 00:20:58.067 --> 00:21:00.067 that 676 00:21:00.067 --> 00:21:01.067 was willing to talk to us and give 677 00:21:01.067 --> 00:21:03.067 us their expertise and ideas. This 678 00:21:03.067 --> 00:21:05.067 was a really important thing for 679 00:21:05.067 --> 00:21:06.067 us and I was to just anybody going 680 00:21:06.067 --> 00:21:09.067 through this type of emergency spent 681 00:21:09.067 --> 00:21:10.067 as much time as you can on the phone, 682 00:21:10.067 --> 00:21:12.067 talking to other people who might 683 00:21:12.067 --> 00:21:14.067 have a lead for you and some information 684 00:21:14.067 --> 00:21:16.067 that might be helpful to you. We 685 00:21:16.067 --> 00:21:17.067 found out as options came up for 686 00:21:17.067 --> 00:21:19.067 us we said yes to everything. Send 687 00:21:19.067 --> 00:21:21.067 us resources, mobilize as soon as 688 00:21:21.067 --> 00:21:24.067 you can, bring us more than you 689 00:21:24.067 --> 00:21:25.067 need, use those logistics, 690 00:21:25.067 --> 00:21:27.067 and resources as they arrive for 691 00:21:27.067 --> 00:21:29.067 you. Finally I will say a lot of 692 00:21:29.067 --> 00:21:32.067 people want to know what is going 693 00:21:32.067 --> 00:21:38.000 on but very few people can help 694 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.000 in mine specific emergency. I say 695 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:41.000 that because we had a very unique 696 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.000 combination of circumstances. We 697 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.000 had an underground mine fire, we 698 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:47.000 had hazmat expertise and underground 699 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.067 expertise and the weight that I 700 00:21:49.067 --> 00:21:52.067 made sure that our group, stakeholder 701 00:21:52.067 --> 00:21:58.067 group, as wide as that was was informed 702 00:21:58.067 --> 00:22:00.067 before the fire even hit the site. 703 00:22:00.067 --> 00:22:02.067 I started sending take the blast 704 00:22:02.067 --> 00:22:04.067 emails to anybody who might be interested 705 00:22:04.067 --> 00:22:05.067 in the situation of iron mountain 706 00:22:05.067 --> 00:22:06.067 mine. That was a critical lesson 707 00:22:06.067 --> 00:22:09.067 learned for us. 708 00:22:09.067 --> 00:22:12.067 >> In general 709 00:22:12.067 --> 00:22:14.067 the 710 00:22:14.067 --> 00:22:16.067 four tools that were very important 711 00:22:16.067 --> 00:22:17.067 for us in being successful in this 712 00:22:17.067 --> 00:22:20.067 fire, these that we did before the 713 00:22:20.067 --> 00:22:22.067 fire happened and 714 00:22:22.067 --> 00:22:25.067 we are continue to do in recovering 715 00:22:25.067 --> 00:22:27.067 from the fire 716 00:22:27.067 --> 00:22:30.067 adaptive management of course. We 717 00:22:30.067 --> 00:22:34.067 have experience this emergency 718 00:22:34.067 --> 00:22:36.067 and the infrastructure has been 719 00:22:36.067 --> 00:22:38.000 plant based on the weaknesses identified 720 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.000 in previous emergencies. We had 721 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.000 a fire in 2008. It was much smaller 722 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.000 scale than the 723 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:48.000 Carr Fire and learned an incredible 724 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.000 amount from that and we used that 725 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.000 to better understand how to build 726 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.000 redundancies into our remedy and 727 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.000 how to effectively 728 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.000 plan with external stakeholders 729 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:02.000 so when the time came 730 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.000 at an emergency hit we will be 731 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.000 prepared. We have robust emergency 732 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.000 preparedness program. The site operators 733 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.000 are 734 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.000 prepared 735 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.000 and a living document that is updated 736 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:16.000 as needed. It has specific scenarios 737 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.000 that are outlined with emergencies, 738 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.000 mine collapse, treatment plant 739 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.000 burns down and you 740 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.000 have severe floods which prevent 741 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:38.934 line deliveries to the site 742 00:23:38.934 --> 00:23:39.934 that has been an issue for us 743 00:23:39.934 --> 00:23:41.934 in recent years and large floods 744 00:23:41.934 --> 00:23:42.934 but I will not get into that detail. 745 00:23:42.934 --> 00:23:45.934 We have specific scenarios that 746 00:23:45.934 --> 00:23:46.934 go two steps of what you do in each 747 00:23:46.934 --> 00:23:49.000 of those and it is really oriented 748 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.000 specific kind of vendors and staff 749 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.000 that you would take to contact vendors 750 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.000 to get things delivered. You cannot 751 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.000 deliver a line to the site one way 752 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.000 then you have this alternate road. 753 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.000 That wrote this out here is a number 754 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:01.000 four helicopter. Basically what 755 00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:03.000 do you need to do to keep this system 756 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.000 from resulting in an off-site release. 757 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.000 We also 758 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.000 have done emergency responders meetings 759 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.000 which is something we plan to do 760 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.000 more 761 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.000 of in the future. After the 2008 762 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.000 fire we found that one of the things 763 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.000 that happens in an emergency response 764 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:23.000 is everyone scatters. This instructor 765 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:25.000 of the fire we have people that 766 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:28.000 aren't local and don't know iron 767 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.000 mine mountain mine 768 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.000 and having external stakeholders 769 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.934 come to the site, learn more about 770 00:24:36.934 --> 00:24:39.934 the site, learn what is there in 771 00:24:39.934 --> 00:24:45.934 a nonemergency situation 772 00:24:45.934 --> 00:24:46.934 really helps prepare us for 773 00:24:46.934 --> 00:24:49.000 when the emergency hits. In this 774 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.000 case I heard a lot of people say 775 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:52.000 I don't know what iron mountain 776 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.000 was for somebody who is local new 777 00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.000 about it and told us it was important. 778 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.000 We had a lot of coordination with 779 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.000 our fire agency in making sure that 780 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:03.000 they protected our site and they 781 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.000 worked with other external stakeholders 782 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.000 to get our power restored to us 783 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.000 very quickly. 784 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:17.000 The last thing I want to mention 785 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.000 and was one of 786 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:21.000 the most unique and helpful tools 787 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:24.000 in the process, the use of an asset 788 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.000 management plan. 789 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.000 This is not frequently used at 790 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:31.000 Superfund sites. It has been tremendously 791 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:32.000 helpful for us and I will 792 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.000 give credit to the site operator 793 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.000 for undertaking this large multi-year 794 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.934 resource intensive process. It has 795 00:25:38.934 --> 00:25:40.934 many 796 00:25:40.934 --> 00:25:42.934 benefits for site management, understanding 797 00:25:42.934 --> 00:25:45.934 your cost application over a number 798 00:25:45.934 --> 00:25:46.934 of years 799 00:25:46.934 --> 00:25:47.934 and which are maintenance obligations 800 00:25:47.934 --> 00:25:50.000 might be. For emergency planning 801 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.000 specifically they gave us a very 802 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:58.000 good framework 803 00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.000 to be recovering from. When the 804 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:01.000 emergency hit we pulled that site 805 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.000 asset list and we have every pump, 806 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.000 every road, every car and component 807 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.000 of what makes the site work. 808 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.000 Inventoried and you can go 809 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:13.000 through that and start taking notes 810 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:16.000 on what has been damaged, what needs 811 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:25.000 immediate repair. 812 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.000 The assessment of risk 813 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:27.000 that comes with asset management 814 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.000 planning process helps you prioritize 815 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:30.000 what is an important asset to replace 816 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.000 quickly versus what is something 817 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.000 that can be 818 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.000 delayed until after the next winter 819 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:41.000 for instance. That is a very detailed 820 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.000 process that was undertaken but 821 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:45.000 I will say that I think not a lot 822 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.000 of people use the site and it has 823 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.067 been a very important one for us 824 00:26:49.067 --> 00:26:52.067 and a very good overall management 825 00:26:52.067 --> 00:26:55.067 tool. To summarize iron Mountain 826 00:26:55.067 --> 00:27:00.067 has gone through 827 00:27:00.067 --> 00:27:02.067 a number of large emergencies and 828 00:27:02.067 --> 00:27:04.067 we certainly note that because of 829 00:27:04.067 --> 00:27:05.067 the location and the scale of the 830 00:27:05.067 --> 00:27:07.067 impact from the site will go through 831 00:27:07.067 --> 00:27:09.067 these again and there will be highly 832 00:27:09.067 --> 00:27:15.067 critical to respond to successfully. 833 00:27:15.067 --> 00:27:16.067 These are a couple of the 834 00:27:16.067 --> 00:27:18.067 tools that we have used to ensure 835 00:27:18.067 --> 00:27:20.067 that success and we will continue 836 00:27:20.067 --> 00:27:21.067 using in the future. With that I 837 00:27:21.067 --> 00:27:24.067 will open it up for questions. 838 00:27:24.067 --> 00:27:26.067 >> Thank you Lily. That was 839 00:27:26.067 --> 00:27:29.067 fascinating. You have some challenges 840 00:27:29.067 --> 00:27:30.067 there. One of the 841 00:27:30.067 --> 00:27:32.067 questions that we received hazard 842 00:27:32.067 --> 00:27:35.067 to do with getting access to the 843 00:27:35.067 --> 00:27:37.000 site during the operations. 844 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:38.000 It sounded like there was fire everywhere 845 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:40.000 and some real challenges. How are 846 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.000 you able to gain access to the site 847 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:43.000 and to keep access to the site during 848 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.000 these emergency operations? 849 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:48.067 >> 850 00:27:48.067 --> 00:27:50.067 That is a fantastic question. Access 851 00:27:50.067 --> 00:27:52.067 was one of the first issues that 852 00:27:52.067 --> 00:27:53.067 we ran into. Folks experience large 853 00:27:53.067 --> 00:27:56.067 fires me know that many times the 854 00:27:56.067 --> 00:27:58.067 local sheriffs office 855 00:27:58.067 --> 00:28:01.067 and the National Guard in conjunction 856 00:28:01.067 --> 00:28:10.067 with the share 857 00:28:10.067 --> 00:28:12.067 immediately 858 00:28:12.067 --> 00:28:14.067 close the Rose leaving town so anyone 859 00:28:14.067 --> 00:28:15.067 that was impacted by the fire was 860 00:28:15.067 --> 00:28:17.067 essentially cut off because of danger 861 00:28:17.067 --> 00:28:18.067 to folks going into their homes 862 00:28:18.067 --> 00:28:20.067 at that point. Also really large 863 00:28:20.067 --> 00:28:21.067 scale issues with looting. It took 864 00:28:21.067 --> 00:28:23.067 a lot of reaching into and integrating 865 00:28:23.067 --> 00:28:25.067 into the Internet command center 866 00:28:25.067 --> 00:28:26.067 of the Carr Fire to reach the right 867 00:28:26.067 --> 00:28:29.067 people through the liaison officer 868 00:28:29.067 --> 00:28:31.067 to make sure that we 869 00:28:31.067 --> 00:28:33.067 communicated with the highest level 870 00:28:33.067 --> 00:28:36.067 of CHP, California Highway Patrol 871 00:28:36.067 --> 00:28:39.000 and the National Guard and the 872 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.000 County sheriffs office to 873 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:43.000 make sure that we had special badges 874 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.000 made. Essentially our folks were 875 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.067 the only people other than firefighters 876 00:28:48.067 --> 00:28:54.067 and 877 00:28:54.067 --> 00:28:56.067 the power 878 00:28:56.067 --> 00:28:58.067 company that were led onto the Rose 879 00:28:58.067 --> 00:29:01.067 to get to the site. This was a huge 880 00:29:01.067 --> 00:29:04.067 challenge for us in 2008 as we were 881 00:29:04.067 --> 00:29:13.067 actually 882 00:29:13.067 --> 00:29:14.067 kicked off the property. We try 883 00:29:14.067 --> 00:29:15.067 to explain that we had important 884 00:29:15.067 --> 00:29:17.067 infrastructure there and to continue 885 00:29:17.067 --> 00:29:19.067 treating after the fire. They said 886 00:29:19.067 --> 00:29:20.067 no, there is a fire and get out. 887 00:29:20.067 --> 00:29:22.067 This is an important lesson learned 888 00:29:22.067 --> 00:29:24.067 that we wanted to avoid in this 889 00:29:24.067 --> 00:29:26.067 fire. I hope that answers the question. 890 00:29:26.067 --> 00:29:28.067 >> Thank you Lily. I think it does. 891 00:29:28.067 --> 00:29:29.067 It looks like we're at the end of 892 00:29:29.067 --> 00:29:31.067 our time for Luis presentation. 893 00:29:31.067 --> 00:29:33.067 Just a reminder if you do have additional 894 00:29:33.067 --> 00:29:34.067 questions that you want to post 895 00:29:34.067 --> 00:29:36.067 to Lily about this fascinating operation 896 00:29:36.067 --> 00:29:38.000 fill free to enter them into the 897 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.000 Q&A box and will try to get back 898 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.000 to you after the session is done. 899 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.000 I would like to introduce our next 900 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:49.067 speaker. It will be 901 00:29:49.067 --> 00:29:50.067 Tom Kady, EPA Environmental Response 902 00:29:50.067 --> 00:29:53.067 Team, kady.thomas@epa.gov and you 903 00:29:53.067 --> 00:29:58.067 will talk about planning work. 904 00:29:58.067 --> 00:30:01.067 >> Can you hear 905 00:30:01.067 --> 00:30:04.067 me okay? 906 00:30:04.067 --> 00:30:20.067 >> Yes. 907 00:30:20.067 --> 00:30:23.067 This is the Mississippi phosphates 908 00:30:23.067 --> 00:30:25.067 Corporation. I will give you an 909 00:30:25.067 --> 00:30:28.067 idea of what the facility looks 910 00:30:28.067 --> 00:30:30.067 like. Right along the Gulf of Mexico 911 00:30:30.067 --> 00:30:33.067 in Pascagoula Mississippi along 912 00:30:33.067 --> 00:30:45.000 by you 913 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.067 Bayou 914 00:30:48.067 --> 00:30:51.067 Casotte. 915 00:30:51.067 --> 00:30:54.067 The Mississippi phosphates facility 916 00:30:54.067 --> 00:30:57.067 is the footprint of the empty C 917 00:30:57.067 --> 00:31:00.067 site. 918 00:31:00.067 --> 00:31:01.067 Dr. 919 00:31:01.067 --> 00:31:03.067 Goss holds a BS in Engineering -Civil 920 00:31:03.067 --> 00:31:05.067 and a PhD in Mining and Earth Systems 921 00:31:05.067 --> 00:31:06.067 Engineering, both from the Colorado 922 00:31:06.067 --> 00:31:08.067 School of Mines. As a principal 923 00:31:08.067 --> 00:31:09.067 at Deere & Ault Consultants in Longmont, 924 00:31:09.067 --> 00:31:10.067 CO, his practice includes tunneling, 925 00:31:10.067 --> 00:31:12.067 underground mine design, and underground 926 00:31:12.067 --> 00:31:13.067 rehabilitation. Since 2000 he has 927 00:31:13.067 --> 00:31:14.067 worked on a variety of abandoned 928 00:31:14.067 --> 00:31:15.067 mines and water tunnels, evaluating 929 00:31:15.067 --> 00:31:17.067 and designing support rehabilitation 930 00:31:17.067 --> 00:31:19.067 and bulkheads. is adjacent to it. 931 00:31:19.067 --> 00:31:22.067 In this area and the Gulf of Mexico 932 00:31:22.067 --> 00:31:23.067 here. To the south of Mississippi 933 00:31:23.067 --> 00:31:25.067 phosphates we have one of the largest 934 00:31:25.067 --> 00:31:27.067 refineries in the United States 935 00:31:27.067 --> 00:31:28.067 if not the world. It is a Chevron 936 00:31:28.067 --> 00:31:29.067 facility that produces 600.000 gallons 937 00:31:29.067 --> 00:31:31.067 of gasoline a day. Industrially 938 00:31:31.067 --> 00:31:33.067 speaking this is a very busy port 939 00:31:33.067 --> 00:31:34.067 and a very central part of not only 940 00:31:34.067 --> 00:31:36.067 Mississippi's economy but the United 941 00:31:36.067 --> 00:31:38.000 States and world economy. It is 942 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.000 a very busy area. Next door to what 943 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.000 we had the grand Bay national 944 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.000 [ Indiscernible ] preserve and grand 945 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.000 Bay wildlife preserve to the northeast. 946 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.000 This is pristine 947 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.067 estuary with a number of endangered 948 00:31:49.067 --> 00:31:50.067 species and whatnot. We have a big 949 00:31:50.067 --> 00:31:52.067 industrial facility region and right 950 00:31:52.067 --> 00:31:58.067 next to it a very environmentally 951 00:31:58.067 --> 00:32:01.067 expensive area. 952 00:32:01.067 --> 00:32:04.067 This photograph is oriented 953 00:32:04.067 --> 00:32:07.067 with the Gulf of Mexico over to 954 00:32:07.067 --> 00:32:10.067 the right. We're looking at 955 00:32:10.067 --> 00:32:12.067 Bayou 956 00:32:12.067 --> 00:32:15.067 Casotte and this is our phosphate 957 00:32:15.067 --> 00:32:18.067 plant and actual 958 00:32:18.067 --> 00:32:24.067 plant area is here. We have a [ Indiscernible ] 959 00:32:24.067 --> 00:32:27.067 which is no longer 960 00:32:27.067 --> 00:32:29.067 operating. We have number 961 00:32:29.067 --> 00:32:32.067 of ponds to the north but the main 962 00:32:32.067 --> 00:32:34.067 concern with this discussion is 963 00:32:34.067 --> 00:32:37.000 what we call the East Chip stock 964 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:40.000 and pond 965 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.000 complex. Taking a picture 966 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.000 of the Grand Canyon nothing comes 967 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:52.000 out quite as large 968 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.000 we take a photo. Let me talk a 969 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.000 little bit about the process first. 970 00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:56.000 Here's how the process works in 971 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.000 making the ammonium phosphate. You 972 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.000 will bring in phosphate by ships 973 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:04.000 from overseas or places in the United 974 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.000 States 975 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:09.000 but generally from overseas. That 976 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.000 rock is placed in these large piles 977 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:13.000 in this area. The next step of 978 00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:16.000 the process is the phosphate rocks 979 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.000 of 980 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:20.000 sulfuric acid that is manufactured 981 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.000 at the plant itself. The product 982 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.000 that you get from that process is 983 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.000 phosphoric acid. The lay statute 984 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.000 get from desktop is what we 985 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.000 call the 986 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.000 phosphate gypsum solution and slurry. 987 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.934 You have gypsum that is left over 988 00:33:37.934 --> 00:33:40.934 in a acidic solution and that 989 00:33:40.934 --> 00:33:43.934 is what is sent over to the gypstacks 990 00:33:43.934 --> 00:33:46.934 complexes. 991 00:33:46.934 --> 00:33:53.000 Just some participates out of that 992 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.000 slurry and the 993 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.000 water is stored within the impoundment 994 00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.000 created by the gypstacks precipitates 995 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.000 out. The second part of the process 996 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.000 is making the fertilizer is 997 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.000 self and what you will do is bring 998 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:08.000 in another ship of ammonia, liquid 999 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:11.000 ammonia and mix that with the 1000 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:14.000 phosphoric acid and that 1001 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.000 produces the ammonium phosphate 1002 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.000 solution. Is been loaded onto other 1003 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.000 ships and sent throughout the United 1004 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.000 States and the world 1005 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.000 to fertilize crop 1006 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.000 production. That is how the facility 1007 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.000 operates. The wastewater that you 1008 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.000 get from the plant, you end up with 1009 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.000 a lot of the ammonium phosphate 1010 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:36.000 solution left over. That is stored 1011 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.934 within the gypstacks impoundment. 1012 00:34:38.934 --> 00:34:41.934 It can be used as a 1013 00:34:41.934 --> 00:34:44.934 raw material 1014 00:34:44.934 --> 00:34:45.934 and continue to make that die ammonium 1015 00:34:45.934 --> 00:34:49.000 phosphate. The facility operators 1016 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.000 use that water that is 1017 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.000 stored in the large impoundment 1018 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.000 as raw material feed. It does add 1019 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.000 value to them. In order to keep 1020 00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.000 these impoundments at the right 1021 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.000 liquid level we want to keep them 1022 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.000 close to 1023 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.000 full and don't want them to dry 1024 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.000 out and lose their content but you 1025 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.000 don't want them to over top either 1026 00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:13.000 they operate 1027 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.000 within a 10 foot range of freeboard 1028 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:18.000 with the impoundments and we start 1029 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.000 getting rain 1030 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.000 you need to treat the 1031 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.000 water that falls into the pond so 1032 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:28.000 you can maintain it that freeboard 1033 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.000 balance. There is a fixed facility 1034 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:32.000 wastewater facility the process 1035 00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:35.000 is about 1.2 gallons matter 1036 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:36.000 per day of 1037 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.934 the wastewater. There's a neutralization 1038 00:35:37.934 --> 00:35:39.934 process where you at line, get the 1039 00:35:39.934 --> 00:35:42.934 pH from 2 to 11 that participates 1040 00:35:42.934 --> 00:35:45.934 out and then you acidify it and 1041 00:35:45.934 --> 00:35:49.000 bring that pH back down to a neutral 1042 00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.000 level and kick that out 1043 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.000 into 1044 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:56.000 Bayou Casotte 1045 00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:59.000 and into the Gulf of Mexico. To 1046 00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:02.000 get a scale of the gypstacks 1047 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:08.000 process. 1048 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:10.000 As you can see that is about 1049 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.000 50.000.000 ft.² or roughly 1050 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:16.000 350 acres. What 1051 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.000 does that really mean. 1052 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:20.000 I have prepared 1053 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:21.000 this presentation for people in 1054 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.000 headquarters initially trying to 1055 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:25.000 describe some 1056 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:27.000 of the emergency situations that 1057 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:29.000 we were potentially facing here. 1058 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:32.000 This is the same footprint overlaid 1059 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.000 on 1060 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:35.000 the Ronald Reagan national Airport. 1061 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:44.000 It takes up most of the airport. 1062 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.000 That was the reason I picked Ronald 1063 00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:47.000 Reagan Airport is the EPA has their 1064 00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:49.067 facility right here in Potomac yards 1065 00:36:49.067 --> 00:36:52.067 which is the building, our office 1066 00:36:52.067 --> 00:36:55.067 that we are pointing to. 1067 00:36:55.067 --> 00:36:57.067 We just told the 1068 00:36:57.067 --> 00:36:59.067 folks to take a look at your window 1069 00:36:59.067 --> 00:37:01.067 and look at the airport and imagined 1070 00:37:01.067 --> 00:37:03.067 that whole thing being ponds of 1071 00:37:03.067 --> 00:37:05.067 pH2 water. Another way to look at 1072 00:37:05.067 --> 00:37:06.067 the sense of scale is look at the 1073 00:37:06.067 --> 00:37:09.067 East Gypstacks from the bottom looking 1074 00:37:09.067 --> 00:37:12.067 at the [ Indiscernible ] 1075 00:37:12.067 --> 00:37:15.067 at the top. The stack is 1076 00:37:15.067 --> 00:37:18.067 120 feet 1077 00:37:18.067 --> 00:37:20.067 tall and 1078 00:37:20.067 --> 00:37:22.067 that is what the two guys happen 1079 00:37:22.067 --> 00:37:24.067 to look like when you're standing 1080 00:37:24.067 --> 00:37:25.067 at the bottom. We go to the top 1081 00:37:25.067 --> 00:37:28.067 of the gypstacks pile, can you read 1082 00:37:28.067 --> 00:37:31.067 my arrow again please. 1083 00:37:31.067 --> 00:37:33.067 We're standing on top of the 1084 00:37:33.067 --> 00:37:36.067 East Gypstacks pond and you will 1085 00:37:36.067 --> 00:37:39.000 see the stacks 1086 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:40.000 off in the distance. That is 1087 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:43.000 the Chevron facility along the Gulf 1088 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:48.067 of Mexico. 1089 00:37:48.067 --> 00:37:51.067 That is an enormous facility. This 1090 00:37:51.067 --> 00:37:52.067 pond is a 25 acre pond on top of 1091 00:37:52.067 --> 00:37:54.067 the gypstacks and the pond behind 1092 00:37:54.067 --> 00:37:57.067 us shown in the second picture, 1093 00:37:57.067 --> 00:38:03.067 the pod is behind the 1094 00:38:03.067 --> 00:38:05.067 pickup trucks 1095 00:38:05.067 --> 00:38:07.067 is a 15 acre pond. These are very 1096 00:38:07.067 --> 00:38:08.067 large ponds on the top of the steps 1097 00:38:08.067 --> 00:38:11.067 act piles and when the when you 1098 00:38:11.067 --> 00:38:13.067 can get 3 to 4 foot waves on top 1099 00:38:13.067 --> 00:38:14.067 of these gypstacks piles. 1100 00:38:14.067 --> 00:38:16.067 >> Stakeholder concerns. We were 1101 00:38:16.067 --> 00:38:17.067 asked to come down the facility 1102 00:38:17.067 --> 00:38:19.067 and take a look at these structural 1103 00:38:19.067 --> 00:38:20.067 integrity of these impoundment complexes. 1104 00:38:20.067 --> 00:38:21.067 What had happened is Mississippi 1105 00:38:21.067 --> 00:38:24.067 phosphates declared take receipt 1106 00:38:24.067 --> 00:38:26.067 and stopped 1107 00:38:26.067 --> 00:38:29.067 operations. We were called down 1108 00:38:29.067 --> 00:38:34.067 about one year after operations 1109 00:38:34.067 --> 00:38:36.067 had ceased because a number of 1110 00:38:36.067 --> 00:38:37.000 the stakeholders in the area, Chevron, 1111 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.000 the people from the wildlife management 1112 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.000 preserves, that Chamber of Commerce 1113 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.000 in the 1114 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.000 Pascagoula, MS region. What happened 1115 00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:52.067 if we had the failure of the pond 1116 00:38:52.067 --> 00:38:53.067 complex now that the clamp is no 1117 00:38:53.067 --> 00:38:54.067 longer operating. There were plenty 1118 00:38:54.067 --> 00:38:56.067 of reasons to have that concern 1119 00:38:56.067 --> 00:38:58.067 in the past. Mississippi phosphates 1120 00:38:58.067 --> 00:39:01.067 had discharged 38 million gallons 1121 00:39:01.067 --> 00:39:06.067 of acidic 1122 00:39:06.067 --> 00:39:07.067 water when they were not able to 1123 00:39:07.067 --> 00:39:09.067 manage the freeboard balance because 1124 00:39:09.067 --> 00:39:10.067 of heavy rain and discharge more 1125 00:39:10.067 --> 00:39:13.067 than 38 million gallons of acidic 1126 00:39:13.067 --> 00:39:19.067 water in to the 1127 00:39:19.067 --> 00:39:21.067 Bayou 1128 00:39:21.067 --> 00:39:22.067 Casotte. That killed over 40.000 1129 00:39:22.067 --> 00:39:24.067 fish and close the bayous. Is shut 1130 00:39:24.067 --> 00:39:26.067 down all business in the area until 1131 00:39:26.067 --> 00:39:27.067 the spill could be released. When 1132 00:39:27.067 --> 00:39:30.067 this material, goes into the water 1133 00:39:30.067 --> 00:39:32.067 and neutralizes by mixing with the 1134 00:39:32.067 --> 00:39:33.067 water in the Bayou and the Gulf 1135 00:39:33.067 --> 00:39:35.067 of Mexico to precipitates out into 1136 00:39:35.067 --> 00:39:37.000 this white slurry that looks like 1137 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:45.000 milk of magnesia. It is an eyesore, 1138 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.000 number one, very public nuisance 1139 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.067 and it kills a lot of fish because 1140 00:39:49.067 --> 00:39:51.067 of ammonia and a phosphorus that 1141 00:39:51.067 --> 00:39:52.067 is in the water is self. The first 1142 00:39:52.067 --> 00:39:54.067 thing we did after listening to 1143 00:39:54.067 --> 00:39:58.067 the stakeholders was to a facility 1144 00:39:58.067 --> 00:40:00.067 tour. This was the condition at 1145 00:40:00.067 --> 00:40:02.067 the top of the gypstacks. When it 1146 00:40:02.067 --> 00:40:05.067 is operating you get fresh gypsum 1147 00:40:05.067 --> 00:40:08.067 been delivered into the pond 1148 00:40:08.067 --> 00:40:10.067 continuously. Each day 1149 00:40:10.067 --> 00:40:11.067 and what you will do is where the 1150 00:40:11.067 --> 00:40:13.067 gentleman is standing you have a 1151 00:40:13.067 --> 00:40:15.067 long reach track all at the top 1152 00:40:15.067 --> 00:40:16.067 and that reaches out to the second 1153 00:40:16.067 --> 00:40:19.067 berm that you see in the water. 1154 00:40:19.067 --> 00:40:22.067 They are scooping fresh liquid, 1155 00:40:22.067 --> 00:40:25.067 saturated gypsum out from 1156 00:40:25.067 --> 00:40:33.067 the bottom 1157 00:40:33.067 --> 00:40:35.067 of this area that they have between 1158 00:40:35.067 --> 00:40:36.067 the two berms and pulling it onto 1159 00:40:36.067 --> 00:40:38.000 the bank. You are continuing water 1160 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:40.000 down and building up the impoundment 1161 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:41.000 banks with fresh dim sum. When the 1162 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:42.000 process stops, you will see that 1163 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.000 this gives them desiccated, dries 1164 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.000 out and cracks. We have 1165 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:50.067 piping throughout the permit or 1166 00:40:50.067 --> 00:40:52.067 of the gypstacks 1167 00:40:52.067 --> 00:40:55.067 pile, when the waves hit against 1168 00:40:55.067 --> 00:40:57.067 the side 1169 00:40:57.067 --> 00:41:00.067 the water drills little holes into 1170 00:41:00.067 --> 00:41:03.067 the banks of the gypsum and 1171 00:41:03.067 --> 00:41:06.067 at that point time they 1172 00:41:06.067 --> 00:41:09.067 were probably 1173 00:41:09.067 --> 00:41:10.067 2 to 3 feet into 1174 00:41:10.067 --> 00:41:12.067 the gypstacks yourself. We saw cracks 1175 00:41:12.067 --> 00:41:15.067 that will go completely across the 1176 00:41:15.067 --> 00:41:17.067 berm crest 1177 00:41:17.067 --> 00:41:19.067 which is supposed to be 20 feet. 1178 00:41:19.067 --> 00:41:21.067 At this point we had areas that 1179 00:41:21.067 --> 00:41:22.067 were as low as 12 feet in width. 1180 00:41:22.067 --> 00:41:25.067 A serious concern about reaching 1181 00:41:25.067 --> 00:41:27.067 the impoundments. 1182 00:41:27.067 --> 00:41:30.067 Looking down the side of the gypstacks 1183 00:41:30.067 --> 00:41:32.067 pile you can see the inner berm 1184 00:41:32.067 --> 00:41:35.067 and out of berm and this should 1185 00:41:35.067 --> 00:41:45.000 be a nice, sloped and maintain crest 1186 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:47.000 of the impoundment. You can see 1187 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:48.067 the kind of erosion that was being 1188 00:41:48.067 --> 00:41:50.067 experienced up therefrom not operating 1189 00:41:50.067 --> 00:41:51.067 the facility at all for over the 1190 00:41:51.067 --> 00:41:53.067 course of the year. Looking down 1191 00:41:53.067 --> 00:41:55.067 the outside of the berm you can 1192 00:41:55.067 --> 00:41:58.067 see seeps in the sidewalls. You 1193 00:41:58.067 --> 00:42:01.067 can see saturated material 1194 00:42:01.067 --> 00:42:02.067 coming out 1195 00:42:02.067 --> 00:42:04.067 of the sidewalls is self and this 1196 00:42:04.067 --> 00:42:07.067 was supposed to be a nicely benched, 1197 00:42:07.067 --> 00:42:09.067 nicely sloped outside of an 1198 00:42:09.067 --> 00:42:12.067 apartment much like you will see 1199 00:42:12.067 --> 00:42:15.067 a landfill constructed. It is 1200 00:42:15.067 --> 00:42:17.067 eroding away. We 1201 00:42:17.067 --> 00:42:20.067 have 61 Slope here so it is not 1202 00:42:20.067 --> 00:42:23.067 very Slope 1203 00:42:23.067 --> 00:42:26.067 steep slope but is a 1204 00:42:26.067 --> 00:42:33.067 6:One Slope 1205 00:42:33.067 --> 00:42:35.067 that was seriously deteriorating 1206 00:42:35.067 --> 00:42:37.000 at the time of our initial inspection. 1207 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:38.000 Take a look at these benches. These 1208 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.000 were deteriorating but they get 1209 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.000 worse over time. Will talk about 1210 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:43.000 that later in the presentation. 1211 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:46.000 Our facility tour findings. This 1212 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:49.000 is back in 2015 was that 1213 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.000 this pond, upon three and pond for has 1214 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:59.000 seriously compromised impoundment 1215 00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:01.000 berms and the 1216 00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:03.000 crests were only 12 feet in width 1217 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:05.000 where they should be 20 feet. There 1218 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.000 was an adequate freeboard so we 1219 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:10.000 had a lot of concern that we may 1220 00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:11.000 over top 1221 00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.000 these impoundments. We had this 1222 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:14.000 treatment plant that I mentioned 1223 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.000 to you in a previous light that 1224 00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:18.000 could treat 1.2 million gallons 1225 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:21.000 a day but the problem is this. One 1226 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:34.000 0.1 million gallons a day, 365 days is 1227 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:36.000 about 400 million gallons per year. 1228 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.934 That assumes there is no downtime 1229 00:43:37.934 --> 00:43:38.934 at the plant and that was always 1230 00:43:38.934 --> 00:43:40.934 downtown at this particular plant 1231 00:43:40.934 --> 00:43:41.934 because it was not in good condition. 1232 00:43:41.934 --> 00:43:43.934 If you might imagine when a facility 1233 00:43:43.934 --> 00:43:45.934 goes bankrupt there were a lot of 1234 00:43:45.934 --> 00:43:46.934 things that were not optimal about 1235 00:43:46.934 --> 00:43:50.000 this facility. The big culprit is 1236 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:52.000 the rainfall. We 1237 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:55.000 usually get 64 inches of rainfall 1238 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:58.000 per year in 1239 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.000 Pascagoula, MS. 20 inches of 1240 00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.000 that evaporates and leaves you with 1241 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.000 a net add of almost 400 million 1242 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:19.000 gallons of rainwater 1243 00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.000 that falls into 1244 00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.000 the pons on a yearly basis that 1245 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:24.000 have to be treated. We call this 1246 00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.000 the cost of rain. Doing nothing 1247 00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:27.000 at this facility, not reducing a 1248 00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:29.000 footprint, not getting rid of the 1249 00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.000 water that you have within the impoundments 1250 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:32.000 cost you $5 billion per year just 1251 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.000 to maintain the status quo. When 1252 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.000 the facility went into bankruptcy 1253 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:36.934 they set up an environmental trust 1254 00:44:36.934 --> 00:44:37.934 for $10 million. That is what the 1255 00:44:37.934 --> 00:44:39.934 trust had to operate the facility. 1256 00:44:39.934 --> 00:44:40.934 As a result of the bankruptcy. 5 1257 00:44:40.934 --> 00:44:42.934 million gallons, 5 million dollars 1258 00:44:42.934 --> 00:44:44.934 went to water treatment within the 1259 00:44:44.934 --> 00:44:45.934 first year. Before EPA took it over. 1260 00:44:45.934 --> 00:44:47.934 It is being run by a bankruptcy 1261 00:44:47.934 --> 00:44:51.000 trust overseen by the government, 1262 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.000 the federal government, 1263 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:55.000 EPA and the state 1264 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:58.000 of Mississippi. The trust was actually 1265 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.000 doing the 1266 00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:02.000 operation of the facility. 5 million 1267 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.000 gallons went to water treatment 1268 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.000 alone. Another to millions, 1269 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.000 $2 million went 1270 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:13.000 to impoundment maintenance. Trying 1271 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.000 to fix and repair the sloughing 1272 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:18.000 and tracking 1273 00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.000 that I showed you before in the 1274 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.000 photos. The trust 1275 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:26.000 shows, at the advice of the government, 1276 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:28.000 to spend another 3 million 1277 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:31.000 in infrastructure and improvements. 1278 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:34.000 Piping 1279 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.934 to connect the various ponds 1280 00:45:36.934 --> 00:45:42.934 to move water from one 1281 00:45:42.934 --> 00:45:44.934 pond to drain it and repaired the 1282 00:45:44.934 --> 00:45:47.934 pond and then fill it back up. It 1283 00:45:47.934 --> 00:45:50.000 was miles of 1284 00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.000 HDPE with significant pumping capacity 1285 00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.000 and improving the discharge capacity 1286 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.000 in the outfall in Bayou Casotte. 1287 00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:59.000 We were limited to 1288 00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:02.000 one to 1289 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.000 two 1290 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:11.000 -- so we could 1291 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:13.000 kick out of to 4 million 1292 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.000 gallons per day in the event of 1293 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:19.000 an emergency 1294 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:20.000 so we had some flexibility in 1295 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.000 operating the facility. In hindsight 1296 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.000 that was money variables spent. 1297 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:29.000 As slowly mentioned in her presentation. 1298 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.000 Having these infrastructure improvements 1299 00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:32.000 give you the flexibility to handle 1300 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:35.000 an emergency situation which proves 1301 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:43.000 to be a very fortunate thing. 1302 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:44.000 Out recommendations from the first 1303 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.000 walk was to repair and maintain 1304 00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:47.000 the berms. Reduce the water level 1305 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.067 so we had adequate freeboard so 1306 00:46:50.067 --> 00:46:51.067 you can handle a 9 inch rain. Increase 1307 00:46:51.067 --> 00:46:53.067 the water treatment capacity so 1308 00:46:53.067 --> 00:46:55.067 you had the ability to get to more 1309 00:46:55.067 --> 00:46:57.067 than 1 million gallons a day out 1310 00:46:57.067 --> 00:47:03.067 of the facility. 1 foot of water 1311 00:47:03.067 --> 00:47:04.067 in the 25 acre pond that 1312 00:47:04.067 --> 00:47:07.067 I showed you was 7.5 million gallons. 1313 00:47:07.067 --> 00:47:10.067 You can pump for one week to lower 1314 00:47:10.067 --> 00:47:13.067 that 1315 00:47:13.067 --> 00:47:15.067 one foot and 1316 00:47:15.067 --> 00:47:17.067 then you can get a 1 inch rain storm 1317 00:47:17.067 --> 00:47:19.067 and all of that water that you treated 1318 00:47:19.067 --> 00:47:21.067 over the course of the week is back 1319 00:47:21.067 --> 00:47:24.067 into your pond complex again. You 1320 00:47:24.067 --> 00:47:30.067 needed the ability 1321 00:47:30.067 --> 00:47:32.067 about 2 to 1322 00:47:32.067 --> 00:47:33.067 3 times that amount a day if you 1323 00:47:33.067 --> 00:47:35.067 wanted to significantly to reduce 1324 00:47:35.067 --> 00:47:37.000 capacity in any of the pons to do 1325 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.000 repair before you had to move water 1326 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.000 back into that pond after the repair. 1327 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.000 You really needed this flexibility 1328 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:43.000 to discharge a lot or pump a lot 1329 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.000 with one pond to another if you 1330 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.000 were to handle any kind of unforeseen 1331 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:48.067 or even forcing weather event. We 1332 00:47:48.067 --> 00:47:49.067 maintain very high level management 1333 00:47:49.067 --> 00:47:51.067 visibility and support. We ran this 1334 00:47:51.067 --> 00:47:53.067 of the regional chain of command, 1335 00:47:53.067 --> 00:47:54.067 stay chain of command and headquarters 1336 00:47:54.067 --> 00:47:57.067 chain of command. The regional administrator 1337 00:47:57.067 --> 00:48:00.067 had conferences weekly if not daily 1338 00:48:00.067 --> 00:48:03.067 on this facility 1339 00:48:03.067 --> 00:48:06.067 and its status on a daily 1340 00:48:06.067 --> 00:48:12.067 basis as the regional, the administrator of the 1341 00:48:12.067 --> 00:48:18.067 EPA. And wife. 1342 00:48:18.067 --> 00:48:20.067 >> In the summer of 2017 we got 1343 00:48:20.067 --> 00:48:23.067 a call from Israel about of phosphate 1344 00:48:23.067 --> 00:48:26.067 just some 1345 00:48:26.067 --> 00:48:29.067 gypsum 1346 00:48:29.067 --> 00:48:31.067 near the Dead 1347 00:48:31.067 --> 00:48:36.067 Sea. This thing Partially collapsed. You can see the 1348 00:48:36.067 --> 00:48:37.000 collapse on the side wall of the 1349 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:40.000 gypstacks pile. It looks very similar 1350 00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:51.067 to the Mississippi 1351 00:48:51.067 --> 00:48:52.067 phosphates. You saw where we had 1352 00:48:52.067 --> 00:48:54.067 crashed going across the crest of 1353 00:48:54.067 --> 00:48:55.067 the plan. If you get enough water 1354 00:48:55.067 --> 00:48:57.067 flowing through the crests and you 1355 00:48:57.067 --> 00:49:00.067 saturate the wall, thickness of 1356 00:49:00.067 --> 00:49:06.067 the wall 1357 00:49:06.067 --> 00:49:07.067 which is the kind of 1358 00:49:07.067 --> 00:49:08.067 collapse you can have. This release 1359 00:49:08.067 --> 00:49:10.067 26 million gallons instantaneously. 1360 00:49:10.067 --> 00:49:12.067 Very low pH water and I left a 12 1361 00:49:12.067 --> 00:49:14.067 mile wake of destruction throughout 1362 00:49:14.067 --> 00:49:16.067 the desert leading to the Dead Sea. 1363 00:49:16.067 --> 00:49:18.067 They called us to ask us what are 1364 00:49:18.067 --> 00:49:20.067 the warning signs for this sort 1365 00:49:20.067 --> 00:49:23.067 of thing. We went back to this facility 1366 00:49:23.067 --> 00:49:26.067 which now EPA had been operating 1367 00:49:26.067 --> 00:49:29.067 for about one year time. 1368 00:49:29.067 --> 00:49:32.067 I told you that you normally get 1369 00:49:32.067 --> 00:49:38.000 64 inches of rain in 1370 00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.000 Pascagoula, MS. Once the EPA 1371 00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.000 took it over we had over 100 inches 1372 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.000 the first year and 120 inches the 1373 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.000 next year. It was just a massive 1374 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:48.067 amount of rainfall. 1375 00:49:48.067 --> 00:49:51.067 Had the infrastructure improvements 1376 00:49:51.067 --> 00:49:54.067 not 1377 00:49:54.067 --> 00:49:56.067 been maintained there was 1378 00:49:56.067 --> 00:49:57.067 no way that we could maintain the 1379 00:49:57.067 --> 00:49:59.067 water or treated enough for discharge. 1380 00:49:59.067 --> 00:50:01.067 After one year this is what the 1381 00:50:01.067 --> 00:50:13.067 outer wall looks like at this facility. 1382 00:50:13.067 --> 00:50:14.067 As you can see we had seats running 1383 00:50:14.067 --> 00:50:16.067 through the sidewall. They have 1384 00:50:16.067 --> 00:50:17.067 reached outside of the wall so this 1385 00:50:17.067 --> 00:50:18.067 will have been saturated and completely 1386 00:50:18.067 --> 00:50:20.067 breached. And about 100 gallons 1387 00:50:20.067 --> 00:50:22.067 per minute seeps all along the outside 1388 00:50:22.067 --> 00:50:24.067 so they were probably six or seven 1389 00:50:24.067 --> 00:50:25.067 of these types of seeds around the 1390 00:50:25.067 --> 00:50:27.067 perimeter of this gypstacks pile. 1391 00:50:27.067 --> 00:50:28.067 The benches that I showed you had 1392 00:50:28.067 --> 00:50:30.067 completely collapsed and it was 1393 00:50:30.067 --> 00:50:33.067 because they were saturated and 1394 00:50:33.067 --> 00:50:36.067 eroded. This is 1395 00:50:36.067 --> 00:50:39.000 at least 1396 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.000 what the gypstacks 1397 00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:50.067 in Israel looked like before 1398 00:50:50.067 --> 00:50:51.067 it is ready to fail. This is a 1399 00:50:51.067 --> 00:50:53.067 photograph of active failure of 1400 00:50:53.067 --> 00:50:55.067 what gypstacks that is in the process 1401 00:50:55.067 --> 00:50:57.067 of failing just like the one in 1402 00:50:57.067 --> 00:50:58.067 Israel. This became an all hands 1403 00:50:58.067 --> 00:51:00.067 on deck situation and basically 1404 00:51:00.067 --> 00:51:03.067 what the folks did. EPA was running 1405 00:51:03.067 --> 00:51:09.067 this at that point time. 1406 00:51:09.067 --> 00:51:11.067 Look we 1407 00:51:11.067 --> 00:51:12.067 have to empty these ponds and take 1408 00:51:12.067 --> 00:51:14.067 them out of service. The only way 1409 00:51:14.067 --> 00:51:16.067 that we could do that was to do 1410 00:51:16.067 --> 00:51:18.067 emergency bypasses. PH New Jersey 1411 00:51:18.067 --> 00:51:21.067 lace in with sodium dioxide and 1412 00:51:21.067 --> 00:51:24.067 released 1413 00:51:24.067 --> 00:51:26.067 over five different events 1414 00:51:26.067 --> 00:51:29.067 over the course of the summer to 1415 00:51:29.067 --> 00:51:31.067 get ponds three and four 1416 00:51:31.067 --> 00:51:40.000 empty. Treatment costs were about 1417 00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:41.000 one penny per gallon. But 1418 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.000 you're talking about an awful lot 1419 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:45.000 of gallons. We spent about $12 million 1420 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:48.067 just doing treatment of that material 1421 00:51:48.067 --> 00:51:49.067 and we tried to discharge 1422 00:51:49.067 --> 00:51:51.067 it and monitor in a way that we 1423 00:51:51.067 --> 00:51:54.067 didn't have these interpretation 1424 00:51:54.067 --> 00:51:57.067 of the Bayou in the 1425 00:51:57.067 --> 00:51:59.067 Gulf of Mexico. It was 1426 00:51:59.067 --> 00:52:02.067 done carefully and quickly in order 1427 00:52:02.067 --> 00:52:05.067 to avert a catastrophic release 1428 00:52:05.067 --> 00:52:10.067 of this material. After that point 1429 00:52:10.067 --> 00:52:12.067 we got serious about reducing the 1430 00:52:12.067 --> 00:52:15.067 footprint of this facility because 1431 00:52:15.067 --> 00:52:17.067 another year of large rainfall 1432 00:52:17.067 --> 00:52:19.067 and we're back to square one. Now 1433 00:52:19.067 --> 00:52:20.067 we don't have these two ponds as 1434 00:52:20.067 --> 00:52:22.067 containment capacity anymore. We 1435 00:52:22.067 --> 00:52:25.067 had to reduce the for print so 1436 00:52:25.067 --> 00:52:28.067 water doesn't reduce the 1437 00:52:28.067 --> 00:52:31.067 amount we have to treat. 1438 00:52:31.067 --> 00:52:33.067 Over the course of the past year 1439 00:52:33.067 --> 00:52:36.067 you have seen before and after 1440 00:52:36.067 --> 00:52:37.000 photo, 1441 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.000 this is the gypstacks photo when 1442 00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:42.000 it was full a couple of years ago 1443 00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:48.000 it is about 1444 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000 half fixed on the outside now so 1445 00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.000 it is graded and properly benched 1446 00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:53.000 and the pons are empty as you can 1447 00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:55.000 see. There's a large pond in the 1448 00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:57.000 background that will be closed next. 1449 00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.000 There is a view from the North Looking 1450 00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:00.000 south. This is what it looks like 1451 00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:03.000 when it was in bad condition. This 1452 00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.000 is pond 1453 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.000 four. Pond three is back there 1454 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.000 and this is what it looks like today. 1455 00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:13.000 We put about 10 acres of liner down 1456 00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:15.000 and have yet to finish grading 1457 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:17.000 the east side of the gypstacks 1458 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.000 at this point. Region four is handling 1459 00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:20.000 this at this point. The plan is 1460 00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.000 to close the entire facility which 1461 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.000 will be about a $120 million project 1462 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:27.000 and we plan to do it 1463 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.000 over the next couple of years. Greg's 1464 00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:33.000 elder is a EPA RPM on this 1465 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:35.000 facility and he is managing the 1466 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:36.000 closure of the facility right now 1467 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:38.934 and here's his contact information 1468 00:53:38.934 --> 00:53:40.934 if anybody has questions 1469 00:53:40.934 --> 00:53:42.934 and my contact information is below 1470 00:53:42.934 --> 00:53:49.000 that. Any questions that I can answer? 1471 00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.000 >> 1472 00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.000 Tom, 1473 00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:55.000 we don't have any questions from 1474 00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:58.000 the participants right now but as 1475 00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:06.000 a reminder feel free 1476 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.000 to enter some questions or comments 1477 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:09.000 that you have especially if you 1478 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:11.000 are working on other phosphate facilities 1479 00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:13.000 in the Gulf Coast area in Florida. 1480 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.000 We love to hear from you and understand 1481 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:16.000 what some of your concerns are that 1482 00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:18.000 might be supported by EPA's ORD 1483 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:19.000 research program. If there are no 1484 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:21.000 further questions to stay on track 1485 00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:23.000 I would like to move to our next 1486 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:26.000 speaker who will be Pascagoula, 1487 00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:28.000 MS. 1488 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:32.000 >> Christoph, are you on the line? 1489 00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:35.000 >> I was asked to 1490 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.934 talk about mine bulkheads. The 1491 00:54:37.934 --> 00:54:41.934 topic today, what are 1492 00:54:41.934 --> 00:54:42.934 some key concepts about bulkheads 1493 00:54:42.934 --> 00:54:45.934 that the EPA responder of the short-term 1494 00:54:45.934 --> 00:54:49.000 or medium term need to know or care 1495 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:55.000 about. 1496 00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:58.000 My mind has a bulkhead, what do 1497 00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:00.000 I do with it? Let's find out 1498 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:03.000 what we can do. A quick outline 1499 00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:05.000 here. To give an overview of 1500 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:08.000 why is that mind there and what 1501 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:11.000 is a cycle for hard rock mine. It 1502 00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:14.000 actually is and isn't, 1503 00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:16.000 risk so 1504 00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:19.000 and how to integrate a bulkhead 1505 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.000 into your plan, 1506 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:25.000 the care and feeding of what 1507 00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:27.000 new bulkhead. 1508 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:28.000 Will start with the volcano here. 1509 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:34.000 Because everybody loves volcanoes. 1510 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.000 The reason why the mine 1511 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:37.934 is a in a certain spot is because 1512 00:55:37.934 --> 00:55:38.934 the metal is there. That is because 1513 00:55:38.934 --> 00:55:41.934 of geology. Here is our view of 1514 00:55:41.934 --> 00:55:42.934 this. You have some sort of magna 1515 00:55:42.934 --> 00:55:44.934 flume that comes into the earth 1516 00:55:44.934 --> 00:55:47.934 and he's the rock and you get all 1517 00:55:47.934 --> 00:55:50.000 kinds of 1518 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:52.000 metal rich liquids and gases that 1519 00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.000 come up. That moves into the rock 1520 00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:56.000 above and forms all of these joints 1521 00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:59.000 and falls that are filled with the 1522 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.000 liquids 1523 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:04.000 with metals in them. As they 1524 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:06.000 to fresh areas they cool down and 1525 00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:08.000 go out a solution and they attach 1526 00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:10.000 themselves to the size of these 1527 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:12.000 cracks and joints. If you have enough 1528 00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:15.000 metal that attaches itself you have 1529 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:17.000 a vein 1530 00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:20.000 and if you have enough that means 1531 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:23.000 it is worth mining. When it is worth 1532 00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:26.000 mining here are some terms. The 1533 00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:31.000 black blob is the veins. That is 1534 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:34.000 the material that you are trying 1535 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.000 to get out, ore. 1536 00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:40.000 A couple of 1537 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:46.000 other terms, 1538 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:49.067 and 1539 00:56:49.067 --> 00:56:52.067 added. That does 1540 00:56:52.067 --> 00:56:53.067 not go all the way to the 1541 00:56:53.067 --> 00:56:56.067 mountain. Bulkheads are going to 1542 00:56:56.067 --> 00:57:05.067 be installed in an added. Here's a cross-section 1543 00:57:05.067 --> 00:57:07.067 of some honest area 1544 00:57:07.067 --> 00:57:10.067 of three mining. What you have is 1545 00:57:10.067 --> 00:57:13.067 the Brown mountains, some false 1546 00:57:13.067 --> 00:57:18.067 in the area and these false 1547 00:57:18.067 --> 00:57:19.067 are actually veins because you 1548 00:57:19.067 --> 00:57:21.067 have enough good metal in them. 1549 00:57:21.067 --> 00:57:23.067 What you also have is the groundwater 1550 00:57:23.067 --> 00:57:25.067 which is similar to the mountains 1551 00:57:25.067 --> 00:57:28.067 above but they are in different 1552 00:57:28.067 --> 00:57:30.067 compartments 1553 00:57:30.067 --> 00:57:31.067 and the false active dams between 1554 00:57:31.067 --> 00:57:34.067 the compartments so you have these 1555 00:57:34.067 --> 00:57:37.000 different water departments. You 1556 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:40.000 get to the mining 1557 00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:43.000 and 1558 00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:52.067 I just lost, I hit the again. 1559 00:57:52.067 --> 00:57:55.067 Sorry guys. Thank you so 1560 00:57:55.067 --> 00:58:01.067 much Jean. 1561 00:58:01.067 --> 00:58:02.067 >> Let's go to the actual mining 1562 00:58:02.067 --> 00:58:04.067 Park. We have established that there 1563 00:58:04.067 --> 00:58:07.067 are good stove stuff in the veins. 1564 00:58:07.067 --> 00:58:09.067 They start digging down and 1565 00:58:09.067 --> 00:58:12.067 digging and ending down and digging 1566 00:58:12.067 --> 00:58:18.067 in and 1567 00:58:18.067 --> 00:58:19.067 everything is 1568 00:58:19.067 --> 00:58:21.067 going really well. But then you 1569 00:58:21.067 --> 00:58:23.067 get deep and you start hitting the 1570 00:58:23.067 --> 00:58:24.067 groundwater. All of a sudden life 1571 00:58:24.067 --> 00:58:26.067 is not so good anymore because the 1572 00:58:26.067 --> 00:58:28.067 mine is wet. That means you have 1573 00:58:28.067 --> 00:58:30.067 to pump it out. If you had to pump 1574 00:58:30.067 --> 00:58:32.067 out the water gets really expensive. 1575 00:58:32.067 --> 00:58:34.067 It may not be worth mining anymore. 1576 00:58:34.067 --> 00:58:35.067 Much of the mines in the area get 1577 00:58:35.067 --> 00:58:37.000 together and they drive a drainage 1578 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:40.000 tunnel down below all of their minds 1579 00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:41.000 that 1580 00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:43.000 effectively drains the water out 1581 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:44.000 of the mountain. You can see the 1582 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.000 groundwater level has gone down 1583 00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:49.067 with nice dry minds that you can 1584 00:58:49.067 --> 00:58:51.067 work on. In addition you will 1585 00:58:51.067 --> 00:58:52.067 drive a shaft all the way down to 1586 00:58:52.067 --> 00:58:55.067 the drainage tunnel which will work 1587 00:58:55.067 --> 00:59:00.067 as your [ Indiscernible ]. Life is good. 1588 00:59:00.067 --> 00:59:03.067 There is a little thing there. You 1589 00:59:03.067 --> 00:59:06.067 see the beautiful young jewels 1590 00:59:06.067 --> 00:59:09.067 orange acid mine drainage 1591 00:59:09.067 --> 00:59:12.067 that is trying to make its way down. 1592 00:59:12.067 --> 00:59:15.067 What happens is 1593 00:59:15.067 --> 00:59:16.067 life is pretty good during the 1594 00:59:16.067 --> 00:59:19.067 mining but at some point the mind 1595 00:59:19.067 --> 00:59:24.067 to run out 1596 00:59:24.067 --> 00:59:26.067 and it is the end of mining. Back 1597 00:59:26.067 --> 00:59:28.067 in the day mines are abandoned and 1598 00:59:28.067 --> 00:59:29.067 everybody leaves. It keeps on draining 1599 00:59:29.067 --> 00:59:31.067 and who really cares. That is up 1600 00:59:31.067 --> 00:59:33.067 a bit bit of a problem. The drainage 1601 00:59:33.067 --> 00:59:35.067 tunnel continues to do what it always 1602 00:59:35.067 --> 00:59:38.000 has and drains the whole mountain. 1603 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:41.000 You have all of this exposed 1604 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.000 mine workings there 1605 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.000 and they start 1606 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:50.067 to form acid mine drainage. 1607 00:59:50.067 --> 00:59:53.067 The 1608 00:59:53.067 --> 00:59:59.067 [ Indiscernible ] reacts with the 1609 00:59:59.067 --> 01:00:02.067 pyrite. 1610 01:00:02.067 --> 01:00:04.067 This forms metal 1611 01:00:04.067 --> 01:00:07.067 precipitate and bacterial lose and 1612 01:00:07.067 --> 01:00:10.067 other nasty materials 1613 01:00:10.067 --> 01:00:12.067 in 1614 01:00:12.067 --> 01:00:14.067 it. That is bad enough to have the 1615 01:00:14.067 --> 01:00:15.067 stuff coming out of the mountain 1616 01:00:15.067 --> 01:00:18.067 but here's what else happens. You've 1617 01:00:18.067 --> 01:00:20.067 got some [ Indiscernible ] that 1618 01:00:20.067 --> 01:00:23.067 are no longer be supported and at 1619 01:00:23.067 --> 01:00:32.067 some point there will be 1620 01:00:32.067 --> 01:00:34.067 some material falling 1621 01:00:34.067 --> 01:00:36.067 in and increase the dam and the 1622 01:00:36.067 --> 01:00:38.000 water builds up behind it and then 1623 01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:39.000 it blows out and you get a big old 1624 01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:41.000 surge of nasty material coming out 1625 01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:43.000 to the portal. That problem. Who 1626 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:44.000 knows how well it will come out 1627 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:45.000 because the portals collapse you 1628 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.000 will have unchecked water falling 1629 01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:48.067 out through debris. Not a controlled 1630 01:00:48.067 --> 01:00:50.067 situation. Here's what it typically 1631 01:00:50.067 --> 01:00:52.067 looks like behind a closed or collapsed 1632 01:00:52.067 --> 01:00:55.067 portal. There is a lot of orange 1633 01:00:55.067 --> 01:01:06.067 [ Indiscernible ]. 1634 01:01:06.067 --> 01:01:08.067 That is a post mining evaluation. 1635 01:01:08.067 --> 01:01:10.067 The first question is is drainage 1636 01:01:10.067 --> 01:01:12.067 a problem for water quality? If 1637 01:01:12.067 --> 01:01:15.067 you are on this call it probably 1638 01:01:15.067 --> 01:01:16.067 is. If so if the drainage is a water 1639 01:01:16.067 --> 01:01:17.067 quality problem that you have two 1640 01:01:17.067 --> 01:01:19.067 general solutions. You can build 1641 01:01:19.067 --> 01:01:21.067 a tree and plant and you can maintain 1642 01:01:21.067 --> 01:01:22.067 the drainage tunnel and keep the 1643 01:01:22.067 --> 01:01:25.067 mine draining and keep the water 1644 01:01:25.067 --> 01:01:31.067 in perpetuity. 1645 01:01:31.067 --> 01:01:33.067 That 1646 01:01:33.067 --> 01:01:34.067 is really the only feasible option. 1647 01:01:34.067 --> 01:01:36.067 Another option in some cases is 1648 01:01:36.067 --> 01:01:37.000 to install bulkheads. They are underground 1649 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:39.000 dams. What happens when you put 1650 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:40.000 bulkheads into this drainage tunnel. 1651 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.000 You see that two green bulkheads 1652 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.000 in there that are now stopped the 1653 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:47.000 water. The groundwater level has 1654 01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:50.067 gone up. 1655 01:01:50.067 --> 01:01:53.067 What happens to acid 1656 01:01:53.067 --> 01:01:56.067 mine drainage? The parts of 1657 01:01:56.067 --> 01:01:59.067 the mind that are flooded 1658 01:01:59.067 --> 01:02:00.067 you get less AMD 1659 01:02:00.067 --> 01:02:03.067 that forms because there is no oxygen 1660 01:02:03.067 --> 01:02:06.067 to react with the pyrite. 1661 01:02:06.067 --> 01:02:08.067 You have parts of the 1662 01:02:08.067 --> 01:02:09.534 mind that enough flooded you get 1663 01:02:09.534 --> 01:02:11.300 some acid line mine drainage coming 1664 01:02:11.300 --> 01:02:13.067 out. 1665 01:02:13.067 --> 01:02:16.067 >> Bulkheads are not the green 1666 01:02:16.067 --> 01:02:19.067 blob that you saw. What do they 1667 01:02:19.067 --> 01:02:22.067 look like? They are 1668 01:02:22.067 --> 01:02:24.067 concrete plugs designed to hold 1669 01:02:24.067 --> 01:02:30.067 back water. You come in mines and 1670 01:02:30.067 --> 01:02:31.067 electric tunnels to seal the access 1671 01:02:31.067 --> 01:02:34.067 tunnels for the workings. You got 1672 01:02:34.067 --> 01:02:37.000 three general designs. 1673 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.000 Dinner slabs to even the walls. 1674 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:40.000 Those are good for low-pressure 1675 01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:43.000 situation. These tapered plugs are 1676 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:48.000 always nice which are for 1677 01:02:48.000 --> 01:02:50.000 high-pressure situation. Or the 1678 01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:51.000 simple wants to build are the pillow 1679 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.000 plugs such as the long plug full 1680 01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:56.000 of concrete. What these are is mass 1681 01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.000 placements of concrete. 1682 01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:05.000 Typically anywhere from, okay, the cheesy ones 1683 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:07.000 might be 1684 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.000 3 to 5 feet long. Generally you're 1685 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:12.000 looking at ones that are eight, 1686 01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:14.000 12. 25 1687 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:17.000 or 30 feet long. They do take up 1688 01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:20.000 the whole mine workings there. 1689 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:23.000 And the hold back the water. 1690 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:26.000 This is a more 1691 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:28.000 of a design drawing. 1692 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:31.000 Before you concrete the plug you 1693 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:34.000 put in some rock 1694 01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:36.934 bolts to make sure the ground 1695 01:03:36.934 --> 01:03:37.934 is nice and 1696 01:03:37.934 --> 01:03:40.934 solid. You drilled grout holes in 1697 01:03:40.934 --> 01:03:43.934 place to seal the 1698 01:03:43.934 --> 01:03:45.934 fractures in the rock and you place 1699 01:03:45.934 --> 01:03:47.934 are concrete and you have a nice 1700 01:03:47.934 --> 01:03:51.000 sustained bypass pipe to let you 1701 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:53.000 take samples and 1702 01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:56.000 control the water in there. Then 1703 01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:59.000 once you place the 1704 01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:02.000 concrete in 1705 01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:03.000 it will contact the gross lease 1706 01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:05.000 on the sites. You drove back through 1707 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:08.000 and you really feel that contact 1708 01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:10.000 between the natural mind 1709 01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:16.000 rock and the concrete right there. 1710 01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:17.000 Here's the view in the 1711 01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.000 two sections. You have your big 1712 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:22.000 grout ring in the middle where you 1713 01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:25.000 are treating the whole 1714 01:04:25.000 --> 01:04:26.000 area and you have the 1715 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:27.000 contact grout sleeves where you 1716 01:04:27.000 --> 01:04:28.000 treat the interface between your 1717 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:30.000 concrete plug and the surrounding 1718 01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:33.000 rock. So that is what a bulkhead 1719 01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:35.000 is. Let's 1720 01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:37.934 take a look at what it isn't. 1721 01:04:37.934 --> 01:04:39.934 >> This is a collapsed portal. Not 1722 01:04:39.934 --> 01:04:42.934 a bulkhead. This is a collapsed 1723 01:04:42.934 --> 01:04:44.934 tunnel, not a bulkhead. 1724 01:04:44.934 --> 01:04:46.934 People like to talk about the bulkhead 1725 01:04:46.934 --> 01:04:50.000 blowing up. That was not a bulkhead, 1726 01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:56.000 that was a pile of rock and 1727 01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:58.000 dirt 1728 01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:00.000 inside of a mine that blew out after 1729 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:02.000 the water built up too much behind 1730 01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:04.000 it. This is a bulkhead. Now have 1731 01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.000 a lovely sampling for it. We have 1732 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:07.000 bypass pipe with a bell on it. A 1733 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.000 nice good mass placed concrete. 1734 01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:16.000 Here's the bulkhead. 1735 01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:19.000 You have the dripping on the front 1736 01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:23.000 side of it. 1737 01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:25.000 Those are actual bulkheads. Let's 1738 01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:28.000 talk a little bit about poker placement. 1739 01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:29.000 We will deep in the mind 1740 01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:32.000 because you need to build enough 1741 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:34.000 cover so the rock 1742 01:05:34.000 --> 01:05:36.000 is solid enough so they can hold 1743 01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:37.934 back the water. If the ground is 1744 01:05:37.934 --> 01:05:39.934 fractured you have a great concrete 1745 01:05:39.934 --> 01:05:40.934 plug but the water will dribble 1746 01:05:40.934 --> 01:05:42.934 through the fractures around it 1747 01:05:42.934 --> 01:05:45.934 and it will not do anything. In 1748 01:05:45.934 --> 01:05:51.000 pairs, you're stepping up the pressure 1749 01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:54.000 as you make a way out. 1750 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:56.000 When you place bulkheads 1751 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:58.000 you start at the very lowest level 1752 01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:01.000 of your mind and you start working 1753 01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:04.000 your way up. 1754 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:05.000 With the drainage tunnel you work 1755 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.000 away throughout the other connective 1756 01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.000 mines until you sealed up the mountain 1757 01:06:09.000 --> 01:06:10.000 to the elevation that you want. 1758 01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:13.000 That includes all of her mind in 1759 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.000 the area that are connected. They 1760 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:20.000 may be connected to the actual workings 1761 01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:21.000 like other shafts and things or 1762 01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:24.000 they may be just connected through 1763 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:25.000 veins because they are the same 1764 01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:27.000 structures or connected through 1765 01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:30.000 drill holes that have been drilled 1766 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:33.000 between sites. You have to 1767 01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:36.067 understand the 1768 01:06:36.067 --> 01:06:42.000 hydrology. If you 1769 01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.000 find out that I had 1770 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:48.067 to build hundreds of bulkheads 1771 01:06:48.067 --> 01:06:51.067 to seal that will 1772 01:06:51.067 --> 01:06:53.067 not work. Another key 1773 01:06:53.067 --> 01:06:56.067 point is once you have committed 1774 01:06:56.067 --> 01:06:59.067 to starting a bulkhead program 1775 01:06:59.067 --> 01:07:02.067 you cannot stop halfway. 1776 01:07:02.067 --> 01:07:04.067 Either keep them on train or you 1777 01:07:04.067 --> 01:07:07.067 steal it up. If you seal up the 1778 01:07:07.067 --> 01:07:08.067 bottom part and have water pouring 1779 01:07:08.067 --> 01:07:10.067 out of the upper levels then you 1780 01:07:10.067 --> 01:07:11.067 have the worst of both worlds. Life 1781 01:07:11.067 --> 01:07:14.067 is not good. 1782 01:07:14.067 --> 01:07:17.067 >> One of the things 1783 01:07:17.067 --> 01:07:20.067 that I am most interested in our 1784 01:07:20.067 --> 01:07:23.067 the various bulkhead 1785 01:07:23.067 --> 01:07:25.067 myths that are out there. 1786 01:07:25.067 --> 01:07:27.067 What people may be missing about 1787 01:07:27.067 --> 01:07:29.067 them. When I go through some of 1788 01:07:29.067 --> 01:07:37.000 these if you guys could send over 1789 01:07:37.000 --> 01:07:38.000 to Jean and he missed that you may 1790 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:40.000 have heard about regarding bulkheads. 1791 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:41.000 I would love to address some of 1792 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:43.000 those. Those are pretty entertaining 1793 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:46.000 so if you have any to share that 1794 01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:51.067 would be great. Bulkheads are the 1795 01:07:51.067 --> 01:07:53.067 right solution for every mine site. 1796 01:07:53.067 --> 01:07:56.067 Know. There may be way too many 1797 01:07:56.067 --> 01:08:01.067 openings or, they limit 1798 01:08:01.067 --> 01:08:04.067 all water drainage. There will probably 1799 01:08:04.067 --> 01:08:05.067 knock it down by a lot but 90 %, 1800 01:08:05.067 --> 01:08:08.067 you have 1000 gallons per minute 1801 01:08:08.067 --> 01:08:09.067 coming out 1802 01:08:09.067 --> 01:08:11.067 you'll probably knock that down 1803 01:08:11.067 --> 01:08:14.067 to about 100. That is great because 1804 01:08:14.067 --> 01:08:15.067 if you have 1000 1805 01:08:15.067 --> 01:08:17.067 gallons coming out you're probably 1806 01:08:17.067 --> 01:08:20.067 looking at a line treatment plant. 1807 01:08:20.067 --> 01:08:21.067 100 gallons you have some 1808 01:08:21.067 --> 01:08:23.067 passive treatment options which 1809 01:08:23.067 --> 01:08:25.067 can be cheaper in the long run. 1810 01:08:25.067 --> 01:08:41.000 The next mess is the favorite of their maintenance free. 1811 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:45.000 You need access to them and make 1812 01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:47.000 sure it they are doing what they 1813 01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:49.067 are supposed to do. You need to 1814 01:08:49.067 --> 01:08:52.067 check the area so they are not affecting 1815 01:08:52.067 --> 01:08:58.067 anything bad. 1816 01:08:58.067 --> 01:09:01.067 Next mess. Bulkheads only 1817 01:09:01.067 --> 01:09:07.067 affect individual minds. 1818 01:09:07.067 --> 01:09:10.067 It doesn't respect other minds 1819 01:09:10.067 --> 01:09:11.067 it is 1820 01:09:11.067 --> 01:09:14.067 really important that bulkheads 1821 01:09:14.067 --> 01:09:16.067 are part of a solution 1822 01:09:16.067 --> 01:09:18.067 for the whole site. If you get a 1823 01:09:18.067 --> 01:09:21.067 few operators you have to come to 1824 01:09:21.067 --> 01:09:22.067 an agreement. It is handy. 1825 01:09:22.067 --> 01:09:25.067 They are Superfund site because 1826 01:09:25.067 --> 01:09:27.067 you can say okay they are doing 1827 01:09:27.067 --> 01:09:30.067 this for the whole Hill. Finally 1828 01:09:30.067 --> 01:09:33.067 bulkheads always approve 1829 01:09:33.067 --> 01:09:39.000 water quality. Typically yes. 1830 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:40.000 The best part of bulkheads is if 1831 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:42.000 you reduce the amount of oxygen 1832 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:45.000 for your pie recreation it tends 1833 01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.067 to prove that but you 1834 01:09:48.067 --> 01:09:50.067 do mobilize different 1835 01:09:50.067 --> 01:09:52.067 metal salts that are in the mine 1836 01:09:52.067 --> 01:09:54.067 and that can be a problem. If you 1837 01:09:54.067 --> 01:09:57.067 are using focus for temporary storage 1838 01:09:57.067 --> 01:10:00.067 you can get periods 1839 01:10:00.067 --> 01:10:03.067 of that bad water in there. 1840 01:10:03.067 --> 01:10:06.067 Bulkhead 1841 01:10:06.067 --> 01:10:22.067 risk-based oh, 1842 01:10:22.067 --> 01:10:24.067 leakage pass bulkhead requires 1843 01:10:24.067 --> 01:10:27.067 additional grouting or second bulkhead. 1844 01:10:27.067 --> 01:10:30.067 Water flows out of other 1845 01:10:30.067 --> 01:10:33.067 mine workings. One 1846 01:10:33.067 --> 01:10:36.067 of the rule 1847 01:10:36.067 --> 01:10:39.000 risks 1848 01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:42.000 is you need to grout 1849 01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:44.000 of the area in front of it and install 1850 01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:47.000 a second bulkhead. Butterflies flows 1851 01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:50.067 out of other bulkheads. 1852 01:10:50.067 --> 01:10:52.067 Known and unknown. 1853 01:10:52.067 --> 01:10:55.067 You have stilled all of the openings 1854 01:10:55.067 --> 01:10:57.067 and you feel good. Do you 1855 01:10:57.067 --> 01:10:59.067 realize there's a bunch of orange 1856 01:10:59.067 --> 01:11:02.067 stuff coming out from the pile of 1857 01:11:02.067 --> 01:11:05.067 rocks. You get more seeps 1858 01:11:05.067 --> 01:11:08.067 in the area. 1859 01:11:08.067 --> 01:11:14.067 Another thing is 1860 01:11:14.067 --> 01:11:16.067 the 1861 01:11:16.067 --> 01:11:17.067 real risk there will be some water 1862 01:11:17.067 --> 01:11:19.067 seeping past the bulkhead. It will 1863 01:11:19.067 --> 01:11:22.067 require treatment. It might. Hopefully 1864 01:11:22.067 --> 01:11:24.067 it is passive 1865 01:11:24.067 --> 01:11:25.067 but something that you need to be 1866 01:11:25.067 --> 01:11:27.067 ready for. Another real risk is 1867 01:11:27.067 --> 01:11:28.067 high pressure bulkheads. Is it of 1868 01:11:28.067 --> 01:11:31.067 piping failure around the bulkhead. 1869 01:11:31.067 --> 01:11:33.067 If you have 1870 01:11:33.067 --> 01:11:36.067 water dripping through and it takes 1871 01:11:36.067 --> 01:11:38.000 out some of the 1872 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:41.000 veins that opens up the whole and 1873 01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:44.000 more water flows through it 1874 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:47.000 so it picks up more fines and you 1875 01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:52.067 have a failure. Then you 1876 01:11:52.067 --> 01:11:54.067 open up the ground and blowing 1877 01:11:54.067 --> 01:11:57.067 it out. The final risk is liability 1878 01:11:57.067 --> 01:11:59.067 for flooding adjacent mines. 1879 01:11:59.067 --> 01:12:02.067 How do you integrate a bulkhead 1880 01:12:02.067 --> 01:12:04.067 into the site plan? 1881 01:12:04.067 --> 01:12:06.067 A bulkhead is typically going to 1882 01:12:06.067 --> 01:12:09.067 be one part of a site solution. 1883 01:12:09.067 --> 01:12:12.067 It is not this install it and go 1884 01:12:12.067 --> 01:12:15.067 home. With a hold 1885 01:12:15.067 --> 01:12:21.067 site plan 1886 01:12:21.067 --> 01:12:23.067 some settlement ponds 1887 01:12:23.067 --> 01:12:25.067 might have passive treatment for 1888 01:12:25.067 --> 01:12:26.067 stuff coming out, dealing with some 1889 01:12:26.067 --> 01:12:29.067 [ Indiscernible ] treatment within 1890 01:12:29.067 --> 01:12:32.067 the mine pulled. You may have 1891 01:12:32.067 --> 01:12:34.067 treatment sites. 1892 01:12:34.067 --> 01:12:36.067 Bulkheads can be used in various 1893 01:12:36.067 --> 01:12:39.000 ways. You can use as a slow control 1894 01:12:39.000 --> 01:12:42.000 structure. That is something 1895 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:45.000 where you let the water through 1896 01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:46.000 but you it 1897 01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:48.000 burps the mine pulled. A lot of 1898 01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:51.000 times if you have a treatment plan 1899 01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:57.000 it may work really great. If you get one of 1900 01:12:57.000 --> 01:12:59.000 these burps 1901 01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:02.000 where the roof fall and water comes 1902 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:07.000 out you have 2000 G PMs 1903 01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:09.000 flowing out for a couple of days. 1904 01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:10.000 The treatment plan cannot handle 1905 01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.000 that. You adjust your valve so you're 1906 01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:13.000 running the proper GPM and life 1907 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:15.000 is good. These do require cleaning 1908 01:13:15.000 --> 01:13:18.000 and maintenance while the pipeline, 1909 01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:25.000 bells, sensors. You can use them for temporary 1910 01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:26.000 storage. Maybe the mountain is very 1911 01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:28.000 porous and you pressure that thing 1912 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.000 up it is leaking all over. What 1913 01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:33.000 you might use is cemented temporarily 1914 01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:34.000 and drain the water back down over 1915 01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:36.934 the creek course of the treatment 1916 01:13:36.934 --> 01:13:38.934 cycle. You may just also 1917 01:13:38.934 --> 01:13:41.934 keep the water long enough for some 1918 01:13:41.934 --> 01:13:44.934 treatment that you are doing 1919 01:13:44.934 --> 01:13:46.934 in 1920 01:13:46.934 --> 01:13:49.000 order to release it in better shape. 1921 01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:50.000 Or perhaps it will be a permit still 1922 01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:53.000 where you return the groundwater 1923 01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:56.000 and treat seeps of passive means, 1924 01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:00.000 the bulkheads, you still need to monitor the 1925 01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.000 bulkhead regularly. The pressure 1926 01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:06.000 behind it 1927 01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:13.000 and do some 1928 01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:15.000 [ Indiscernible ] treatment. As 1929 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:16.000 we get towards the end of the talk 1930 01:14:16.000 --> 01:14:18.000 the post bulkhead installation. 1931 01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:20.000 You have the bulkhead in place. 1932 01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:23.000 You need to keep that access to 1933 01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:24.000 look for any seepage and check 1934 01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:26.000 the water levels behind it. It was 1935 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:28.000 designed for certain pressure make 1936 01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:31.000 sure that it is within the operating 1937 01:14:31.000 --> 01:14:32.000 pressure. Filling 1938 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:35.000 a monitoring plan on the bulkheads. 1939 01:14:35.000 --> 01:14:37.934 At the flow rates and 1940 01:14:37.934 --> 01:14:40.934 figure out how Chris Lee you want 1941 01:14:40.934 --> 01:14:42.934 to 1942 01:14:42.934 --> 01:14:45.934 check the flows of all of bulkheads 1943 01:14:45.934 --> 01:14:49.000 and 1944 01:14:49.000 --> 01:15:04.000 adit. You have to actually inspect 1945 01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:06.000 the bulkhead itself. Is a 1946 01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:07.000 deteriorating or okay. What is the 1947 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.000 conditions of the pipes and valves. 1948 01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:10.000 What is the condition of the instruments 1949 01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:12.000 behind their. Are the concentrated 1950 01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:13.000 flows coming around. Are the coming 1951 01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:15.000 downstream or something about a 1952 01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:17.000 washout. Do we need to do some additional 1953 01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.000 work. Is a still safe to access 1954 01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:21.000 that area or do you need to install 1955 01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:22.000 some ground support to get in there. 1956 01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:24.000 That is the concluding thoughts 1957 01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:26.000 for use of bulkheads. It may not 1958 01:15:26.000 --> 01:15:27.000 be the right solution for your site. 1959 01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:29.000 This should be installed after significant 1960 01:15:29.000 --> 01:15:32.000 study and design. If you inherited 1961 01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:35.000 some mine site and 1962 01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:37.934 you should plug this up 1963 01:15:37.934 --> 01:15:39.934 and let's do it on Thursday, 1964 01:15:39.934 --> 01:15:41.934 hard one to figure out if that is 1965 01:15:41.934 --> 01:15:44.934 a good idea. Keep in mind that Jason 1966 01:15:44.934 --> 01:15:46.934 minds may be 1967 01:15:46.934 --> 01:15:50.000 effective and figure out is that 1968 01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:51.000 will be a problem or not. That monitoring 1969 01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:54.000 maintenance is needed after installation. 1970 01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:57.000 This is 1971 01:15:57.000 --> 01:16:00.000 some highlights of 1972 01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000 what 1973 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:03.000 the Cliff Notes version of what 1974 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:05.000 you know about bulkheads on the 1975 01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:08.000 site. This is a shameless plug for 1976 01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:17.000 another two weeks they will be 1977 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:19.000 getting together 1978 01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:20.000 with Joy Jenkins from the EPA and 1979 01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.000 Jeff Graves with Colorado division 1980 01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:24.000 of reclamation mining and safety. 1981 01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:25.000 We will do the whole to our seminar 1982 01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:28.000 bulkheads. We will address design 1983 01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:32.000 a little bit more and 1984 01:16:32.000 --> 01:16:34.000 the water treatment and several 1985 01:16:34.000 --> 01:16:36.067 case studies. That will be coming 1986 01:16:36.067 --> 01:16:37.000 up on October 25th and the link 1987 01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:40.000 for it right there which will share 1988 01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:41.000 with everybody. With that less and 1989 01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:44.000 with a nice pleading slide brought 1990 01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:47.000 to you by the tour 1991 01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:49.067 is on board of the nicely clean 1992 01:16:49.067 --> 01:16:52.067 mine site. Thank you everyone. 1993 01:16:52.067 --> 01:16:55.067 >> 1994 01:16:55.067 --> 01:16:57.067 >> Thank you Christoph. We do 1995 01:16:57.067 --> 01:16:59.067 have a number of questions. I will 1996 01:16:59.067 --> 01:17:01.067 try to get through a few right now. 1997 01:17:01.067 --> 01:17:04.067 Will try to answer a few more later. 1998 01:17:04.067 --> 01:17:06.067 We talked about inspection of bulkheads. 1999 01:17:06.067 --> 01:17:09.067 There are probably situations where 2000 01:17:09.067 --> 01:17:11.067 the bulkheads aren't 2001 01:17:11.067 --> 01:17:12.067 accessible because they are in the 2002 01:17:12.067 --> 01:17:15.067 lower deeper regions of the mine 2003 01:17:15.067 --> 01:17:20.067 or might not have people access 2004 01:17:20.067 --> 01:17:21.534 at some point. How you go about 2005 01:17:21.534 --> 01:17:23.467 inspecting some of these and accessible 2006 01:17:23.467 --> 01:17:25.067 bulkheads. 2007 01:17:25.067 --> 01:17:28.067 >> And in some cases 2008 01:17:28.067 --> 01:17:31.067 you cannot. You should be expecting 2009 01:17:31.067 --> 01:17:33.067 them because you don't know what 2010 01:17:33.067 --> 01:17:35.067 is going on. When you cannot see 2011 01:17:35.067 --> 01:17:38.000 them there is a bit of a problem. 2012 01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:41.000 The, ideally what you do is you 2013 01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:44.000 get deeper in and 2014 01:17:44.000 --> 01:17:47.000 two bulkheads 2015 01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:50.067 are closer to the end. 2016 01:17:50.067 --> 01:17:52.067 In some case you 2017 01:17:52.067 --> 01:17:53.067 are able to seal access with some 2018 01:17:53.067 --> 01:17:55.067 additional work. We did that on 2019 01:17:55.067 --> 01:17:56.067 the site where we did open up the 2020 01:17:56.067 --> 01:17:59.067 portal area, secured the ground 2021 01:17:59.067 --> 01:18:02.067 for about 300 feet, inspect the 2022 01:18:02.067 --> 01:18:05.067 bulkhead and actually drilled 2023 01:18:05.067 --> 01:18:08.067 behind the bulkhead 2024 01:18:08.067 --> 01:18:11.067 behind the hill 2025 01:18:11.067 --> 01:18:13.067 so we learn 2026 01:18:13.067 --> 01:18:16.067 more about it. In some cases you 2027 01:18:16.067 --> 01:18:18.067 cannot expect them and 2028 01:18:18.067 --> 01:18:20.067 that could be a problem because 2029 01:18:20.067 --> 01:18:22.067 when the question comes up is the 2030 01:18:22.067 --> 01:18:23.067 bulkhead fine. The answer is I don't 2031 01:18:23.067 --> 01:18:26.067 know. Hope so. 2032 01:18:26.067 --> 01:18:29.067 >> One of the questions 2033 01:18:29.067 --> 01:18:31.067 that came up is you mentioned 2034 01:18:31.067 --> 01:18:34.067 that sometimes bulkhead and can 2035 01:18:34.067 --> 01:18:39.000 cause 2036 01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:40.000 release in other areas or unexpected 2037 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:42.000 areas, the seeps or springs. How 2038 01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:43.000 would you address that in terms 2039 01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:44.000 of either identifying dose springs 2040 01:18:44.000 --> 01:18:47.000 or addressing the releases? 2041 01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:56.067 >> That is, you do inspect the seeps 2042 01:18:56.067 --> 01:18:59.067 and expected to seep out in 2043 01:18:59.067 --> 01:19:01.067 some spots. Were for things ahead 2044 01:19:01.067 --> 01:19:04.067 of time. See if there any changes. 2045 01:19:04.067 --> 01:19:07.067 A lot of that is dependent on 2046 01:19:07.067 --> 01:19:10.067 what your requirements are in the 2047 01:19:10.067 --> 01:19:13.067 area. If you see a seat coming 2048 01:19:13.067 --> 01:19:16.067 out of the 2049 01:19:16.067 --> 01:19:18.067 side of a mountain it 2050 01:19:18.067 --> 01:19:20.067 may not have an effect. If the seat 2051 01:19:20.067 --> 01:19:23.067 is bad then you may need to make 2052 01:19:23.067 --> 01:19:34.067 a drink control dam. In some cases 2053 01:19:34.067 --> 01:19:35.067 you have some passive treatments. 2054 01:19:35.067 --> 01:19:37.000 It depends on what the water quality 2055 01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:39.000 is and how much is coming out. The 2056 01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:41.000 bigger problem tends to be if you 2057 01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:44.000 have any of these collapse adit 2058 01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:50.067 that nobody knew about. 2059 01:19:50.067 --> 01:19:51.067 There was another opening into 2060 01:19:51.067 --> 01:19:52.067 the mine openings that has been 2061 01:19:52.067 --> 01:19:54.067 covered by landslide debris and 2062 01:19:54.067 --> 01:19:56.067 no one knows where it is and all 2063 01:19:56.067 --> 01:19:58.067 of a sudden it fills with water 2064 01:19:58.067 --> 01:19:59.067 and it comes flowing right out. 2065 01:19:59.067 --> 01:20:01.067 That is where you have the bigger 2066 01:20:01.067 --> 01:20:03.067 problem and when it is great if 2067 01:20:03.067 --> 01:20:04.067 you have access to your bulkhead 2068 01:20:04.067 --> 01:20:06.067 where you can release water until 2069 01:20:06.067 --> 01:20:09.067 the water stops flowing out of the 2070 01:20:09.067 --> 01:20:11.067 unknown adit. 2071 01:20:11.067 --> 01:20:12.067 You can open it up and install another 2072 01:20:12.067 --> 01:20:14.067 bulkhead or structure in that place 2073 01:20:14.067 --> 01:20:17.067 and go with your day. 2074 01:20:17.067 --> 01:20:20.067 >> 2075 01:20:20.067 --> 01:20:22.067 Thank 2076 01:20:22.067 --> 01:20:23.067 you. There are a couple of more 2077 01:20:23.067 --> 01:20:25.067 questions. If we have time at the 2078 01:20:25.067 --> 01:20:27.067 end we will circle back and try 2079 01:20:27.067 --> 01:20:30.067 to get to answer an additional question. 2080 01:20:30.067 --> 01:20:32.067 Our final speaker is Terri Byrne 2081 01:20:32.067 --> 01:20:35.067 who will talk about managing legacy 2082 01:20:35.067 --> 01:20:38.000 uranium mines 2083 01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:41.000 on tribal sites. 2084 01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:44.000 >> 2085 01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:45.000 Can 2086 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:46.000 you hear me? 2087 01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:49.067 >> Sounds great. Let's get started. 2088 01:20:49.067 --> 01:20:52.067 >> As you can see my site 2089 01:20:52.067 --> 01:20:57.067 is not quite as colorful as 2090 01:20:57.067 --> 01:20:59.067 Christoph. We will dive into uranium 2091 01:20:59.067 --> 01:21:02.067 mines and legacy mining activities 2092 01:21:02.067 --> 01:21:04.067 have really affected 2093 01:21:04.067 --> 01:21:07.067 the health and environment of numerous 2094 01:21:07.067 --> 01:21:10.067 Native American communities 2095 01:21:10.067 --> 01:21:13.067 and I want to specifically focus 2096 01:21:13.067 --> 01:21:16.067 on the ones in the 2097 01:21:16.067 --> 01:21:19.067 American Southwest. I want to 2098 01:21:19.067 --> 01:21:30.067 emphasize that 2099 01:21:30.067 --> 01:21:32.067 quantifying those impacts is well 2100 01:21:32.067 --> 01:21:34.067 beyond the scope of this presentation. 2101 01:21:34.067 --> 01:21:36.067 There is a lot of excellent research 2102 01:21:36.067 --> 01:21:37.000 going on there that I am not going 2103 01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:39.000 to have time to address. However 2104 01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:41.000 I want to briefly touch on aspects 2105 01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:42.000 of tribal life that we need to be 2106 01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:44.000 considered during these types of 2107 01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:45.000 responses. Will get to that in a 2108 01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:47.000 few minutes. This particular site 2109 01:21:47.000 --> 01:21:49.067 is the section 25 residential site 2110 01:21:49.067 --> 01:21:52.067 for those that are not doing mine 2111 01:21:52.067 --> 01:21:54.067 stuff 2112 01:21:54.067 --> 01:21:57.067 in the American Southwest we typically 2113 01:21:57.067 --> 01:22:00.067 talk in sections. A section is a 2114 01:22:00.067 --> 01:22:06.067 one square mile area. 2115 01:22:06.067 --> 01:22:09.067 Our sizes so large that talking 2116 01:22:09.067 --> 01:22:11.067 about acres tends to get lost 2117 01:22:11.067 --> 01:22:15.067 in sections is what we will discuss. 2118 01:22:15.067 --> 01:22:18.067 This particular resident is about 2119 01:22:18.067 --> 01:22:21.067 10 miles north of 2120 01:22:21.067 --> 01:22:23.067 Milan 2121 01:22:23.067 --> 01:22:25.067 New Mexico. That area is primarily 2122 01:22:25.067 --> 01:22:28.067 famous for privately run federal 2123 01:22:28.067 --> 01:22:29.067 prison so that is the landmark 2124 01:22:29.067 --> 01:22:32.067 for the area. Primary residence 2125 01:22:32.067 --> 01:22:41.000 we will discuss is 2126 01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.000 the 180 acre parcel of land. I 2127 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:45.000 want to be up front and exchange 2128 01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:47.000 for being able to use this data 2129 01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:48.000 I was asked for to show some sensitivity 2130 01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:50.000 toward the particulars of the site 2131 01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:53.000 so I will be a little less forthcoming 2132 01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:56.000 about the exact residence. 2133 01:22:56.000 --> 01:23:04.000 >> Less 2134 01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:06.000 discuss the residential site geology. 2135 01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:08.000 You don't need to be a geologist 2136 01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:09.000 to figure out loss of sand and sandstone 2137 01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:11.000 type rock. Those of you who are 2138 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:14.000 sharp eyed geologists will be able 2139 01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:16.000 to see the lines tone limestone 2140 01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:18.000 outcropping. This is interesting 2141 01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:24.000 because this is the [ Indiscernible ] limestone and it is 2142 01:23:24.000 --> 01:23:27.000 extremely rare that 2143 01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:30.000 a limestone formation 2144 01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:33.000 would contain uranium. 2145 01:23:33.000 --> 01:23:38.934 Limestone has relatively low 2146 01:23:38.934 --> 01:23:41.934 porosity which makes it inhospitable 2147 01:23:41.934 --> 01:23:45.934 for uranium in the matrix. 2148 01:23:45.934 --> 01:23:49.000 Your mining engineers are going 2149 01:23:49.000 --> 01:23:51.000 to be particularly interested and 2150 01:23:51.000 --> 01:23:56.000 well versed in this particular area. 2151 01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:58.000 Dozens of uranium producing mines 2152 01:23:58.000 --> 01:24:01.000 have been established in this particular 2153 01:24:01.000 --> 01:24:03.000 formation. I want to highlight 2154 01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:06.000 that the home is located in an 2155 01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:08.000 area 2156 01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:11.000 called poison can you. Emergency 2157 01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:16.000 responders if you get 2158 01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:18.000 keys like that that should be a 2159 01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:21.000 hand and a half about what you are 2160 01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:23.000 about to get into. 2161 01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:24.000 For this particular site there 2162 01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:25.000 are five abandoned uranium miles 2163 01:24:25.000 --> 01:24:27.000 located within a quarter-mile of 2164 01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:30.000 the residence. Just to give you 2165 01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:32.000 a little bit of reference as to 2166 01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:35.000 the scale of mining in the area 2167 01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:37.934 between the section, 2168 01:24:37.934 --> 01:24:45.934 section 25 and section 30. that is 2 mi.² there 2169 01:24:45.934 --> 01:24:49.000 are probably about 100 uranium deposits 2170 01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:51.000 that produce ore from 2171 01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:54.000 open pit and underground mining. 2172 01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:57.000 It is very lucrative area for 2173 01:24:57.000 --> 01:25:03.000 uranium mining. 2174 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:05.000 Typically living close to 2175 01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:08.000 a mine results and concerns about 2176 01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:09.000 polluted groundwater, 2177 01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:11.000 high concentrations of heavy metals 2178 01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:17.000 and soil, low pH runoff an extreme 2179 01:25:17.000 --> 01:25:19.000 difficulty we vegetating 2180 01:25:19.000 --> 01:25:21.000 the land. I want you to hang onto 2181 01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:23.000 this. I will circle back to it in 2182 01:25:23.000 --> 01:25:24.000 a minute. Simply though when we're 2183 01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:26.000 dealing with emergency response 2184 01:25:26.000 --> 01:25:28.000 we're talking about stuff that can 2185 01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:31.000 be accomplished in 12 months or 2186 01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:36.000 less and we simply cannot 2187 01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:37.934 address those types of impacts 2188 01:25:37.934 --> 01:25:38.934 in the 12 month time period. Usually 2189 01:25:38.934 --> 01:25:40.934 what we're focusing on is quicker 2190 01:25:40.934 --> 01:25:43.934 actions and things that are more 2191 01:25:43.934 --> 01:25:45.934 likely to be of more immediate affect 2192 01:25:45.934 --> 01:25:49.000 human health. Radon in particular 2193 01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:52.000 seems to be a big 2194 01:25:52.000 --> 01:25:58.000 issue and 2195 01:25:58.000 --> 01:25:59.000 all matter of uranium bearing areas. 2196 01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:02.000 The U.S. geological survey has found 2197 01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:05.000 rate up to 100 2198 01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:08.000 100.000 pico per 2199 01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:11.000 leader. We 2200 01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:14.000 really need 2201 01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:15.000 to make sure that 2202 01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:17.000 we do proper characterization when 2203 01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:19.000 we should respond to the sites particularly 2204 01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:22.000 when we respond in an emergency 2205 01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.000 fashion. 2206 01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:25.000 We have to triage their activities 2207 01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:28.000 to make sure that we are getting 2208 01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:31.000 what we need to get. As a 2209 01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:34.000 quick aside some of you 2210 01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:37.000 may be working on units of 2211 01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:40.000 working levels, for 2212 01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:43.000 pico leaders is about.02 2213 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:46.000 working level. I think were 2214 01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:49.067 trying to phase out that. 2215 01:26:49.067 --> 01:26:52.067 That you pay 2216 01:26:52.067 --> 01:26:54.067 Region VI office has 2217 01:26:54.067 --> 01:26:56.067 been performing assessments to determine 2218 01:26:56.067 --> 01:26:59.067 impacts from these activities. We 2219 01:26:59.067 --> 01:27:02.067 have added several 2220 01:27:02.067 --> 01:27:08.067 former uranium mines 2221 01:27:08.067 --> 01:27:10.067 in the upper 2222 01:27:10.067 --> 01:27:13.067 New Mexico area. As you can see 2223 01:27:13.067 --> 01:27:15.067 from this example we are using 2224 01:27:15.067 --> 01:27:18.067 gamma scans to be able to figure 2225 01:27:18.067 --> 01:27:21.067 out where our hotspots are and 2226 01:27:21.067 --> 01:27:24.067 the hot colors tend to line up 2227 01:27:24.067 --> 01:27:25.067 well with the former mines. A little 2228 01:27:25.067 --> 01:27:30.067 caution. This particular gamma scan 2229 01:27:30.067 --> 01:27:32.067 is from a different area than the 2230 01:27:32.067 --> 01:27:35.067 section 25 resident but the session 2231 01:27:35.067 --> 01:27:37.000 25 2232 01:27:37.000 --> 01:27:40.000 resident which show simpler results. 2233 01:27:40.000 --> 01:27:43.000 We're using this Spectra 2234 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:46.000 for the to figure out where we 2235 01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:49.067 need to focus on our efforts. 2236 01:27:49.067 --> 01:27:52.067 Gamma spectrometer 2237 01:27:52.067 --> 01:27:55.067 analyzes the gamma-ray 2238 01:27:55.067 --> 01:27:57.067 spectrum and the location. 2239 01:27:57.067 --> 01:27:59.067 Typical unit has four parts that 2240 01:27:59.067 --> 01:28:02.067 work together. I didn't want to 2241 01:28:02.067 --> 01:28:05.067 give you a picture because 2242 01:28:05.067 --> 01:28:07.067 I didn't want to seem 2243 01:28:07.067 --> 01:28:08.067 like I was endorsing one system 2244 01:28:08.067 --> 01:28:11.067 over another. But every unit pretty 2245 01:28:11.067 --> 01:28:14.067 much has 2246 01:28:14.067 --> 01:28:15.067 your translating 2247 01:28:15.067 --> 01:28:17.067 software that ties everything together 2248 01:28:17.067 --> 01:28:20.067 and gives you results. The electronics 2249 01:28:20.067 --> 01:28:23.067 that 2250 01:28:23.067 --> 01:28:24.067 will write the impulses where they 2251 01:28:24.067 --> 01:28:26.067 need to go. A cooling mechanism 2252 01:28:26.067 --> 01:28:28.067 and a detector. For those of you 2253 01:28:28.067 --> 01:28:30.067 who are old folks like me you might 2254 01:28:30.067 --> 01:28:32.067 remember that these units use to 2255 01:28:32.067 --> 01:28:34.067 require an entire room in a laboratory 2256 01:28:34.067 --> 01:28:36.067 and are now field deployed. They 2257 01:28:36.067 --> 01:28:39.000 use to require weeks of hold time 2258 01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:42.000 and analyses, the 30 day 2259 01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:43.000 hold time 2260 01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:46.000 was standard at one time. Not results 2261 01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:48.067 are near instantaneous. 2262 01:28:48.067 --> 01:28:50.067 You no longer need a PhD to operate 2263 01:28:50.067 --> 01:28:53.067 these things. Just a skilled operator. 2264 01:28:53.067 --> 01:29:01.067 It is a big 2265 01:29:01.067 --> 01:29:02.067 bone if they can do large areas 2266 01:29:02.067 --> 01:29:04.067 quickly and with relatively good 2267 01:29:04.067 --> 01:29:06.067 accuracy. We primarily use them 2268 01:29:06.067 --> 01:29:08.067 for radon gas but they can be used 2269 01:29:08.067 --> 01:29:11.067 for detecting radon and water is 2270 01:29:11.067 --> 01:29:17.067 well. 2271 01:29:17.067 --> 01:29:19.067 >> At the session 25 residential 2272 01:29:19.067 --> 01:29:21.067 site we did a seven-day radon test 2273 01:29:21.067 --> 01:29:24.067 and this was part of a larger study 2274 01:29:24.067 --> 01:29:27.067 for the 2275 01:29:27.067 --> 01:29:29.067 San Mateo air 2276 01:29:29.067 --> 01:29:31.067 Creek watershed. I will return to 2277 01:29:31.067 --> 01:29:34.067 that. The results at this site came 2278 01:29:34.067 --> 01:29:40.000 out at about 16 1/2 pico leaders. 2279 01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:43.000 The level of 2280 01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:46.000 four 2281 01:29:46.000 --> 01:29:50.067 pico letters. Our 2282 01:29:50.067 --> 01:29:53.067 regional health physicists has established 2283 01:29:53.067 --> 01:29:56.067 that if we do two test six 2284 01:29:56.067 --> 01:29:58.067 years apart and both are 2285 01:29:58.067 --> 01:30:01.067 over four times the acceptable level 2286 01:30:01.067 --> 01:30:03.067 that is the rationale for 2287 01:30:03.067 --> 01:30:06.067 emergency action. Emergency action 2288 01:30:06.067 --> 01:30:09.067 would basically allow us 2289 01:30:09.067 --> 01:30:12.067 to waive 2290 01:30:12.067 --> 01:30:14.067 a 90 day 2291 01:30:14.067 --> 01:30:16.067 test and immediately start installation 2292 01:30:16.067 --> 01:30:18.067 of a mitigation system. The 90 day 2293 01:30:18.067 --> 01:30:24.067 test for those of you who are familiar, on your out for track 2294 01:30:24.067 --> 01:30:28.067 or electric ion chamber test. 2295 01:30:28.067 --> 01:30:31.067 Another seven-day test was conducted 2296 01:30:31.067 --> 01:30:35.067 again in 2016. With similar results, 2297 01:30:35.067 --> 01:30:38.000 to 2010. I want to emphasize that 2298 01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:41.000 the resident 2299 01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:42.000 has 2300 01:30:42.000 --> 01:30:44.000 two full-time adult residents but 2301 01:30:44.000 --> 01:30:45.000 also small grandchildren that visit 2302 01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:47.000 on a routine basis. One year later 2303 01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:50.067 the homeowners contacted EPA and 2304 01:30:50.067 --> 01:30:53.067 requested a mitigation system 2305 01:30:53.067 --> 01:30:56.067 and resumption of 2306 01:30:56.067 --> 01:31:02.067 our investigation. 2307 01:31:02.067 --> 01:31:05.067 >> The residence 2308 01:31:05.067 --> 01:31:07.067 is 2309 01:31:07.067 --> 01:31:10.067 a good size. 4200 ft.², two 2310 01:31:10.067 --> 01:31:13.067 levels. One of the 2311 01:31:13.067 --> 01:31:15.067 challenges is not just 2312 01:31:15.067 --> 01:31:17.067 the size of the house but that it 2313 01:31:17.067 --> 01:31:20.067 has a walkout basement. This has 2314 01:31:20.067 --> 01:31:23.067 hampered insulation of the 2315 01:31:23.067 --> 01:31:26.067 remedial equipment. 2316 01:31:26.067 --> 01:31:28.067 For all system of 2317 01:31:28.067 --> 01:31:30.067 radon mitigation and there are various 2318 01:31:30.067 --> 01:31:33.067 ones commercially available you're 2319 01:31:33.067 --> 01:31:36.067 looking at two 2320 01:31:36.067 --> 01:31:38.000 parts. A method to prevent influx 2321 01:31:38.000 --> 01:31:41.000 of new radon and the other one is 2322 01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:43.000 simply 2323 01:31:43.000 --> 01:31:45.000 to get the radon that is in their 2324 01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:50.067 out of the system. The total cost 2325 01:31:50.067 --> 01:31:52.067 is about $48.000 for this particular 2326 01:31:52.067 --> 01:31:54.067 residence. Initial reports is that 2327 01:31:54.067 --> 01:31:57.067 the system is successively reading 2328 01:31:57.067 --> 01:32:00.067 the remediating 2329 01:32:00.067 --> 01:32:11.067 at the residence. I would 2330 01:32:11.067 --> 01:32:12.067 like to extrapolate out from that 2331 01:32:12.067 --> 01:32:14.067 a little bit and discuss what will 2332 01:32:14.067 --> 01:32:16.067 be some of the reasons why someone 2333 01:32:16.067 --> 01:32:18.067 would delay or refuse remedial action 2334 01:32:18.067 --> 01:32:21.067 of a property and am going to be 2335 01:32:21.067 --> 01:32:22.067 painfully clear that I am not necessarily 2336 01:32:22.067 --> 01:32:25.067 pointing to this particular residence 2337 01:32:25.067 --> 01:32:28.067 but this is an extrapolation of 2338 01:32:28.067 --> 01:32:40.000 multiple data points. 2339 01:32:40.000 --> 01:32:42.000 There 2340 01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:43.000 is historical distrust of the American 2341 01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:44.000 government amongst many Native American 2342 01:32:44.000 --> 01:32:46.000 people. There is a historical distrust 2343 01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:47.000 of outsiders in general amongst 2344 01:32:47.000 --> 01:32:49.000 Native Americans. Then a huge one 2345 01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:51.000 for these communities. Of your disruption 2346 01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:53.000 or termination of the tribal lifestyles. 2347 01:32:53.000 --> 01:32:56.000 Some doctor's put out an excellent 2348 01:32:56.000 --> 01:32:59.000 presentation where they flipped 2349 01:32:59.000 --> 01:33:01.000 this around because tribal 2350 01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:03.000 lifestyles could be considered voluntary 2351 01:33:03.000 --> 01:33:06.000 and you want to think of these as 2352 01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:10.000 tribal life links. This is an umbrella 2353 01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:13.000 where you have disposal 2354 01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:16.000 resources, food culture ceremonies 2355 01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:20.000 and human health and as responders 2356 01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:23.000 we may be faced with situations 2357 01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:29.000 where spiritual health 2358 01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:30.000 of the people who are on site might 2359 01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:33.000 be a more pressing concern that 2360 01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:35.000 physical health at any one point 2361 01:33:35.000 --> 01:33:37.934 in time. We need to be prepared 2362 01:33:37.934 --> 01:33:40.934 for that discussion. 2363 01:33:40.934 --> 01:33:42.934 >> One of the real 2364 01:33:42.934 --> 01:33:44.934 take-home points I am hoping to 2365 01:33:44.934 --> 01:33:47.934 get across is every rock, every 2366 01:33:47.934 --> 01:33:51.000 plant, every animal 2367 01:33:51.000 --> 01:33:54.000 in this tribal environment 2368 01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:56.000 is potentially of food, 2369 01:33:56.000 --> 01:33:59.000 medicine or cultural resource on 2370 01:33:59.000 --> 01:34:00.000 these lands. So losing these valuable 2371 01:34:00.000 --> 01:34:02.000 resources even temporarily can't 2372 01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:05.000 really stress people out and they 2373 01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:08.000 may flatly decide not to follow 2374 01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:11.000 what you consider to be 2375 01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:14.000 sound advice. Once you 2376 01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:17.000 consider the multiple 2377 01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:19.000 pathways for exposure 2378 01:34:19.000 --> 01:34:22.000 that normal risk assesses may not 2379 01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:25.000 fully consider your using 2380 01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:28.000 water for drinking and bathing but 2381 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:32.000 for ceremony uses as well. A 2382 01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:34.000 larger number of activities that 2383 01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:36.934 incorporate the land and land resources 2384 01:34:36.934 --> 01:34:38.934 on site. 2385 01:34:38.934 --> 01:34:41.934 Food preparation and production 2386 01:34:41.934 --> 01:34:44.934 and these are all things that 2387 01:34:44.934 --> 01:34:46.934 your risk assessments should be 2388 01:34:46.934 --> 01:34:50.000 considered in the back of their 2389 01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:51.000 heads. Because of 2390 01:34:51.000 --> 01:34:54.000 that standard risk assessment techniques 2391 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:59.000 it might be inadequate. 2392 01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:01.000 I would really encourage responders 2393 01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:03.000 to be as informed as possible about 2394 01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:06.000 the activities on the land. I want 2395 01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:11.000 to encourage 2396 01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:13.000 to talk to the people there and 2397 01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:15.000 get an idea of what is going on. 2398 01:35:15.000 --> 01:35:17.000 At the same time will also need 2399 01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:18.000 to make sure that we are respective 2400 01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:20.000 of tribal serenity. The tribal people 2401 01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:22.000 choose to keep their activities 2402 01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:24.000 confidential, clearly we have to 2403 01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:26.000 respect that and there are times 2404 01:35:26.000 --> 01:35:29.000 where you may just need of best 2405 01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:32.000 guess. On a lot of these lands 2406 01:35:32.000 --> 01:35:34.000 hundreds of abandoned mines 2407 01:35:34.000 --> 01:35:36.934 the problem cannot easily minimize. 2408 01:35:36.934 --> 01:35:39.934 One-size-fits-all approach 2409 01:35:39.934 --> 01:35:42.934 might not be the right 2410 01:35:42.934 --> 01:35:49.000 approach and could even lead 2411 01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:51.000 you down the wrong path. I want 2412 01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:52.000 you to remember that there were 2413 01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:53.000 five abandoned uranium mines within 2414 01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:56.000 a short distance of resident 25 2415 01:35:56.000 --> 01:35:59.000 which gives you lots of the 2416 01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:02.000 potential for 2417 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:05.000 exposure. On the other side of the 2418 01:36:05.000 --> 01:36:06.000 exposure is the 2419 01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:09.000 overwhelming size of many of these 2420 01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.000 mines that we have in the 2421 01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:14.000 western part of the U.S. Were talking 2422 01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:17.000 about minds that are literally the 2423 01:36:17.000 --> 01:36:18.000 size of an entire county 2424 01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:21.000 in other states. I mentioned earlier 2425 01:36:21.000 --> 01:36:33.000 the San Mateo Creekside where 2426 01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:34.000 we are 2427 01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:36.067 considering that to the national 2428 01:36:36.067 --> 01:36:38.000 priorities list next year. This 2429 01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:40.000 site is going to be over 200 mi.² 2430 01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:41.000 so if you can imagine cleaning up 2431 01:36:41.000 --> 01:36:43.000 an area the size of Dublin Ireland 2432 01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:44.000 or Paris France plus Brussels Belgium 2433 01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:47.000 then you are only half done. Given 2434 01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:50.067 all of this 2435 01:36:50.067 --> 01:36:51.067 these are challenges that are going 2436 01:36:51.067 --> 01:36:53.067 to require innovative and multidisciplinary 2437 01:36:53.067 --> 01:36:55.067 solutions. I will remind you again 2438 01:36:55.067 --> 01:37:00.067 200 mi.² of polluted water, 2439 01:37:00.067 --> 01:37:03.067 polluted groundwater, high concentrations 2440 01:37:03.067 --> 01:37:05.067 of heavy metals, low pH runoff from 2441 01:37:05.067 --> 01:37:11.067 stone flooding and extreme difficult 2442 01:37:11.067 --> 01:37:13.067 to revegetate in. 2443 01:37:13.067 --> 01:37:15.067 We cannot recycle our old ways of 2444 01:37:15.067 --> 01:37:20.067 thinking. We need to finish line 2445 01:37:20.067 --> 01:37:22.067 the sites. Just a rhetorical question. 2446 01:37:22.067 --> 01:37:24.067 What can you bring to the table 2447 01:37:24.067 --> 01:37:27.067 to help with these challenges? 2448 01:37:27.067 --> 01:37:34.067 I am indebted to the efforts of 2449 01:37:34.067 --> 01:37:36.067 the on scene coordinators that 2450 01:37:36.067 --> 01:37:38.000 put their boots on the ground and 2451 01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:41.000 get to work done. Amanda Hoff and 2452 01:37:41.000 --> 01:37:43.000 Dr. 2453 01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:46.000 Diane Barton as well and our standard 2454 01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:52.067 EPA disclaimer. Any questions? 2455 01:37:52.067 --> 01:37:55.067 >> This is 2456 01:37:55.067 --> 01:38:01.067 Jim again. 2457 01:38:01.067 --> 01:38:03.067 I think we're still 2458 01:38:03.067 --> 01:38:05.067 waiting for a few questions but 2459 01:38:05.067 --> 01:38:06.067 I had a couple. You mentioned a 2460 01:38:06.067 --> 01:38:07.067 number of tribal lifeways that should 2461 01:38:07.067 --> 01:38:10.067 be considered in response actions. 2462 01:38:10.067 --> 01:38:13.067 Your response to the section 25 2463 01:38:13.067 --> 01:38:14.067 residential mitigation did you 2464 01:38:14.067 --> 01:38:15.067 encounter any specific issues that 2465 01:38:15.067 --> 01:38:18.067 you could elaborate on. 2466 01:38:18.067 --> 01:38:21.067 >> I don't want to 2467 01:38:21.067 --> 01:38:24.067 go specifically 2468 01:38:24.067 --> 01:38:26.067 with this particular residence 2469 01:38:26.067 --> 01:38:29.067 but take it a little bit more broadly. 2470 01:38:29.067 --> 01:38:32.067 Many of the native people 2471 01:38:32.067 --> 01:38:35.067 have a lot of memories about 2472 01:38:35.067 --> 01:38:37.000 the federal government saying 2473 01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:40.000 one thing it unnecessarily providing 2474 01:38:40.000 --> 01:38:43.000 what they 2475 01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:46.000 are purporting to do. 2476 01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:49.067 That cultural distrust is really 2477 01:38:49.067 --> 01:38:51.067 strong and that can be 2478 01:38:51.067 --> 01:39:02.067 difficult to overcome. Our standard, here we are, we are 2479 01:39:02.067 --> 01:39:03.067 here to save the day is not necessarily 2480 01:39:03.067 --> 01:39:05.067 going to be well received. I think 2481 01:39:05.067 --> 01:39:08.067 we have to really make sure that 2482 01:39:08.067 --> 01:39:10.067 we go in both with respect and understanding 2483 01:39:10.067 --> 01:39:13.067 that just getting our foot in the 2484 01:39:13.067 --> 01:39:15.067 door might be a process. 2485 01:39:15.067 --> 01:39:18.067 There is a whole environmental 2486 01:39:18.067 --> 01:39:20.067 justice umbrella. 2487 01:39:20.067 --> 01:39:21.067 You're talking about typically 2488 01:39:21.067 --> 01:39:23.067 communities with not only health 2489 01:39:23.067 --> 01:39:26.067 issues but they are often lower 2490 01:39:26.067 --> 01:39:28.067 income. 2491 01:39:28.067 --> 01:39:30.067 There is a raft of other issues 2492 01:39:30.067 --> 01:39:33.067 that go along with it that I am 2493 01:39:33.067 --> 01:39:36.067 not going to address. There are 2494 01:39:36.067 --> 01:39:39.000 strategies and 2495 01:39:39.000 --> 01:39:42.000 techniques that we are using 2496 01:39:42.000 --> 01:39:45.000 that EPA will help 2497 01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:50.067 provide resources, researchers with an going in blind 2498 01:39:50.067 --> 01:39:52.067 is often a recipe 2499 01:39:52.067 --> 01:40:03.067 for hurt feelings on both sides. Follow-up to 2500 01:40:03.067 --> 01:40:04.067 that have the tribes give you any 2501 01:40:04.067 --> 01:40:06.067 recommendations on how to improve 2502 01:40:06.067 --> 01:40:08.067 the response actions or be more 2503 01:40:08.067 --> 01:40:14.067 responsive to the needs of the tribe. 2504 01:40:14.067 --> 01:40:15.067 That 2505 01:40:15.067 --> 01:40:16.067 is not across-the-board. There some 2506 01:40:16.067 --> 01:40:18.067 tribes there are very welcoming 2507 01:40:18.067 --> 01:40:21.067 and almost eager to provide assistance 2508 01:40:21.067 --> 01:40:22.067 and that is why I 2509 01:40:22.067 --> 01:40:25.067 really wanted to recommend that 2510 01:40:25.067 --> 01:40:28.067 we simply ask and see 2511 01:40:28.067 --> 01:40:33.067 what we can find out. I believe there are a couple 2512 01:40:33.067 --> 01:40:36.067 that have even written of resources 2513 01:40:36.067 --> 01:40:39.000 that would be helpful. The converse 2514 01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:42.000 of that is there may be other tribes 2515 01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:44.000 or pueblos 2516 01:40:44.000 --> 01:40:45.000 that don't want you to know what 2517 01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:47.000 happens in this particular area. 2518 01:40:47.000 --> 01:40:49.067 They don't want you to know that 2519 01:40:49.067 --> 01:40:52.067 they use this particular plant and 2520 01:40:52.067 --> 01:40:55.067 so you 2521 01:40:55.067 --> 01:40:58.067 will have to respect that. 2522 01:40:58.067 --> 01:41:01.067 Going back 2523 01:41:01.067 --> 01:41:03.067 >> Going back to 2524 01:41:03.067 --> 01:41:05.067 one of your figures we talk about 2525 01:41:05.067 --> 01:41:07.067 the Damas that traffic to be was 2526 01:41:07.067 --> 01:41:13.067 it survey done as a ground-based 2527 01:41:13.067 --> 01:41:15.067 grid sampling. I 2528 01:41:15.067 --> 01:41:16.067 knows you had a very large area 2529 01:41:16.067 --> 01:41:19.067 of coverage there. How is it done? 2530 01:41:19.067 --> 01:41:22.067 >> It is definitely 2531 01:41:22.067 --> 01:41:24.067 a grid sampling type thing. We're 2532 01:41:24.067 --> 01:41:27.067 primarily using this for characterization. 2533 01:41:27.067 --> 01:41:29.067 We want 2534 01:41:29.067 --> 01:41:32.067 to be able to figure out where to 2535 01:41:32.067 --> 01:41:35.067 really sink our money 2536 01:41:35.067 --> 01:41:40.000 and time and efforts so 2537 01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:43.000 if you're talking about hundreds 2538 01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:46.000 of square miles, doing a seven Tey 2539 01:41:46.000 --> 01:41:49.067 test 2540 01:41:49.067 --> 01:41:52.067 and it will take 2541 01:41:52.067 --> 01:41:53.067 forever 2542 01:41:53.067 --> 01:41:55.067 and be expensive instead we want 2543 01:41:55.067 --> 01:41:58.067 to use this particular tool, gamma 2544 01:41:58.067 --> 01:42:07.067 spectroscopy to hone down and 2545 01:42:07.067 --> 01:42:08.067 focus on areas that need to be addressed. 2546 01:42:08.067 --> 01:42:10.067 Residences that we feel are likely 2547 01:42:10.067 --> 01:42:13.067 going to need extra work to get 2548 01:42:13.067 --> 01:42:15.067 them to safer human standards. 2549 01:42:15.067 --> 01:42:18.067 When we get actually physically 2550 01:42:18.067 --> 01:42:21.067 on-site 2551 01:42:21.067 --> 01:42:24.067 like 2552 01:42:24.067 --> 01:42:27.067 on this particular resident 2553 01:42:27.067 --> 01:42:30.067 residents we can go to the seven 2554 01:42:30.067 --> 01:42:33.067 day charcoal canister type study. 2555 01:42:33.067 --> 01:42:41.000 This particular technology for 2556 01:42:41.000 --> 01:42:42.000 widescale research is really the 2557 01:42:42.000 --> 01:42:43.000 way to go and I definitely recommend 2558 01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:44.000 it. 2559 01:42:44.000 --> 01:42:46.000 >> It sounds like it is a collaborative 2560 01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:48.000 data approach where the gamma spectroscopy 2561 01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:51.000 is your initial task and you would 2562 01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:54.000 follow up with something more 2563 01:42:54.000 --> 01:42:56.000 detailed and specific 2564 01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:57.000 like the seven day charcoal test. 2565 01:42:57.000 --> 01:43:00.000 >> That is absolutely true. I was 2566 01:43:00.000 --> 01:43:03.000 discussing that it is even filled 2567 01:43:03.000 --> 01:43:05.000 the deployable. 2568 01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:08.000 There trying it out on aircraft 2569 01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:11.000 and the ideal would be 2570 01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:13.000 in a few years to 2571 01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:16.000 be able to even have the drone deployed 2572 01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:18.000 and whether we will be actually 2573 01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:21.000 be able to use drones I don't know 2574 01:43:21.000 --> 01:43:22.667 but that is a different issue. 2575 01:43:22.667 --> 01:43:24.400 That is where the technology is 2576 01:43:24.400 --> 01:43:26.000 going. 2577 01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:29.000 >> Did you do the 2578 01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:32.000 gamma spectroscopy survey 2579 01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:35.000 with lines or 2580 01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:37.934 aerial platforms, ATV 2581 01:43:37.934 --> 01:43:39.934 or to stay on 2582 01:43:39.934 --> 01:43:40.934 the roast. Just a little bit more 2583 01:43:40.934 --> 01:43:43.934 detail on the survey. 2584 01:43:43.934 --> 01:43:45.934 >> This 2585 01:43:45.934 --> 01:43:49.000 particular one I believe was done 2586 01:43:49.000 --> 01:43:55.000 with lines and 2587 01:43:55.000 --> 01:43:57.000 with ATVs. The one you are looking 2588 01:43:57.000 --> 01:44:00.000 at I don't recall the exact weight 2589 01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:03.000 we did it 2590 01:44:03.000 --> 01:44:05.000 for the 2591 01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:08.000 San Mateo Creek because it was a 2592 01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:11.000 larger area. 2593 01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:12.000 I would have to get back to you 2594 01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:13.000 on that. Am not sure about that 2595 01:44:13.000 --> 01:44:16.000 one. 2596 01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:19.000 >> Okay. Thank you. 2597 01:44:19.000 --> 01:44:20.000 If you have any additional questions 2598 01:44:20.000 --> 01:44:22.000 please feel free to drop them in. 2599 01:44:22.000 --> 01:44:25.000 We have a few more minutes for questions. 2600 01:44:25.000 --> 01:44:27.000 Thank you very much 2601 01:44:27.000 --> 01:44:30.000 carry. That was a great presentation. 2602 01:44:30.000 --> 01:44:33.000 Fascinating stuff. 2603 01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:35.000 I would like to go back. We have 2604 01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:36.934 a couple of questions that came 2605 01:44:36.934 --> 01:44:38.934 in. I would like to go back to Tom. 2606 01:44:38.934 --> 01:44:40.934 Tom, if you're still on the line 2607 01:44:40.934 --> 01:44:43.934 we have a couple of questions regarding, 2608 01:44:43.934 --> 01:44:45.934 apparently a number of these 2609 01:44:45.934 --> 01:44:49.000 phosphate facilities, processing 2610 01:44:49.000 --> 01:44:50.000 facilities have an 2611 01:44:50.000 --> 01:44:53.000 issue with radio nucleotides. Was 2612 01:44:53.000 --> 01:44:56.000 that an issue in 2613 01:44:56.000 --> 01:44:57.000 Mississippi and if so how did you 2614 01:44:57.000 --> 01:45:00.000 address them. 2615 01:45:00.000 --> 01:45:01.000 >> It 2616 01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:03.000 was not although it was investigated 2617 01:45:03.000 --> 01:45:06.000 for that. We had another ERT member 2618 01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:11.000 to do a RAD survey of the 2619 01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:13.000 facility. There was low level radioactivity. 2620 01:45:13.000 --> 01:45:15.000 When you take materials away from 2621 01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:18.000 rock you and concentrating the natural 2622 01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:21.000 occurring radio nucleotides 2623 01:45:21.000 --> 01:45:23.000 in it. But 2624 01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:26.000 it was not a human health risk. 2625 01:45:26.000 --> 01:45:29.000 To just stack piles have radioactive 2626 01:45:29.000 --> 01:45:35.000 issue associated with them. 2627 01:45:35.000 --> 01:45:36.934 >> There was a lot of Jim Steck 2628 01:45:36.934 --> 01:45:39.934 material there and I know that in 2629 01:45:39.934 --> 01:45:42.934 some cases this material can 2630 01:45:42.934 --> 01:45:44.934 be used as a source material for 2631 01:45:44.934 --> 01:45:47.934 other products. Is there a market 2632 01:45:47.934 --> 01:45:54.000 for this gypstacks solid. 2633 01:45:54.000 --> 01:45:56.000 Obviously you have a lot at that 2634 01:45:56.000 --> 01:45:58.000 facility. Is that an option here? 2635 01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:01.000 >> There is a lot of research along 2636 01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:04.000 that line and so far, 2637 01:46:04.000 --> 01:46:07.000 at least to my knowledge 2638 01:46:07.000 --> 01:46:08.000 there is not a 2639 01:46:08.000 --> 01:46:10.000 market. Not a viable market for 2640 01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:12.000 the quantity that is out there. 2641 01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:15.000 Because of the radio nucleotides 2642 01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:17.000 that can be an issue and other aspects 2643 01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:20.000 of some of those close-up photos 2644 01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:23.000 of the deteriorating just stack 2645 01:46:23.000 --> 01:46:30.000 just stack, there 2646 01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:33.000 were a lot of impurities that create 2647 01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:36.067 problems. I was on a website about 2648 01:46:36.067 --> 01:46:39.000 beneficial reuse of gypstacks 2649 01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:41.000 and it is the subject 2650 01:46:41.000 --> 01:46:43.000 of a lot of research but I didn't 2651 01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:46.000 get the impression from the articles 2652 01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:49.067 I was reading that they are 2653 01:46:49.067 --> 01:46:51.067 really any viable Marcus 2654 01:46:51.067 --> 01:46:54.067 at this time but a lot of research 2655 01:46:54.067 --> 01:46:56.067 along that line. 2656 01:46:56.067 --> 01:46:59.067 >> This is Terri Burton. About 12 2657 01:46:59.067 --> 01:47:01.067 years ago 2658 01:47:01.067 --> 01:47:03.067 I was in ORD lead for a project 2659 01:47:03.067 --> 01:47:06.067 that was trying to reuse gypstacks. 2660 01:47:06.067 --> 01:47:08.067 We actually were able 2661 01:47:08.067 --> 01:47:11.067 to figure out a process that combined 2662 01:47:11.067 --> 01:47:14.067 it with residue from 2663 01:47:14.067 --> 01:47:17.067 fossil gypsum and 2664 01:47:17.067 --> 01:47:20.067 a product called red mud 2665 01:47:20.067 --> 01:47:23.067 from the aluminum processing. 2666 01:47:23.067 --> 01:47:30.067 It made all 2667 01:47:30.067 --> 01:47:32.067 Geo technically superior material 2668 01:47:32.067 --> 01:47:34.067 and thought we will be going to 2669 01:47:34.067 --> 01:47:35.067 be able to market it for all sorts 2670 01:47:35.067 --> 01:47:37.000 of concrete replacement and projects 2671 01:47:37.000 --> 01:47:40.000 and it turned out that the radioactivity 2672 01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:43.000 shut us down. We cannot get 2673 01:47:43.000 --> 01:47:47.000 past that. 2674 01:47:47.000 --> 01:47:49.067 Is sounds like there's some information 2675 01:47:49.067 --> 01:47:51.067 available of folks want to dig into 2676 01:47:51.067 --> 01:47:52.067 that a little deeper. 2677 01:47:52.067 --> 01:47:55.067 >> In the few minutes that we have 2678 01:47:55.067 --> 01:48:03.067 left I have a question. I will direct it 2679 01:48:03.067 --> 01:48:05.067 to Tom first but I would like to 2680 01:48:05.067 --> 01:48:07.067 hear each of the speakers addressed 2681 01:48:07.067 --> 01:48:10.067 the issue. It has to do with resiliency. 2682 01:48:10.067 --> 01:48:11.067 We heard before 2683 01:48:11.067 --> 01:48:12.067 really great talks today about responses, 2684 01:48:12.067 --> 01:48:14.067 emergency responses and responding 2685 01:48:14.067 --> 01:48:16.067 to different situations. It sounds 2686 01:48:16.067 --> 01:48:18.067 like from sorrow over talks that 2687 01:48:18.067 --> 01:48:19.067 there's a lot of good planning that 2688 01:48:19.067 --> 01:48:21.067 is required. How do we best build 2689 01:48:21.067 --> 01:48:24.067 in resiliency as we look forward 2690 01:48:24.067 --> 01:48:31.067 to new 2691 01:48:31.067 --> 01:48:33.067 decision documents and addressing 2692 01:48:33.067 --> 01:48:35.067 some of the sites that are coming 2693 01:48:35.067 --> 01:48:36.067 up. For example we have a lot of 2694 01:48:36.067 --> 01:48:39.000 sites coming up that will fall under 2695 01:48:39.000 --> 01:48:41.000 this legacy uranium mining as well 2696 01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:42.000 as many of the mining sites that 2697 01:48:42.000 --> 01:48:45.000 are going to be listed soon. Starting 2698 01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:47.000 with Tom, can you give us 2699 01:48:47.000 --> 01:48:50.067 wash should we be considering to 2700 01:48:50.067 --> 01:48:52.067 build in resiliency 2701 01:48:52.067 --> 01:48:55.067 and to our decision documents and 2702 01:48:55.067 --> 01:48:58.067 other site activities. 2703 01:48:58.067 --> 01:49:04.067 >> 2704 01:49:04.067 --> 01:49:07.067 Defined resiliency for 2705 01:49:07.067 --> 01:49:08.067 me. I hear the term a lot but what 2706 01:49:08.067 --> 01:49:09.067 exactly do you mean Jim? 2707 01:49:09.067 --> 01:49:11.067 >> As slowly expressed there are 2708 01:49:11.067 --> 01:49:14.067 a lot of natural conditions that 2709 01:49:14.067 --> 01:49:16.067 can occur. 2710 01:49:16.067 --> 01:49:19.067 We want to make sure that whatever 2711 01:49:19.067 --> 01:49:21.067 we design, whatever 2712 01:49:21.067 --> 01:49:23.067 we propose as a long-term solution 2713 01:49:23.067 --> 01:49:26.067 is effective in the long term and 2714 01:49:26.067 --> 01:49:28.067 is not affected by 2715 01:49:28.067 --> 01:49:31.067 these extreme weather conditions 2716 01:49:31.067 --> 01:49:34.067 or other conditions that appear 2717 01:49:34.067 --> 01:49:35.067 to be much more common now. 2718 01:49:35.067 --> 01:49:38.000 Does that help? 2719 01:49:38.000 --> 01:49:41.000 >> 2720 01:49:41.000 --> 01:49:43.000 It does. I was say with 2721 01:49:43.000 --> 01:49:45.000 Mississippi phosphates the biggest 2722 01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:48.067 thing that we were trying to do, 2723 01:49:48.067 --> 01:49:51.067 I don't know 2724 01:49:51.067 --> 01:49:54.067 that it was the best thing to do 2725 01:49:54.067 --> 01:50:03.067 in hindsight but it certainly, 2726 01:50:03.067 --> 01:50:05.067 it was an option that we wanted 2727 01:50:05.067 --> 01:50:06.067 to keep on the table and that was 2728 01:50:06.067 --> 01:50:08.067 keeping the facility in a condition 2729 01:50:08.067 --> 01:50:09.067 where we could find a potential 2730 01:50:09.067 --> 01:50:10.067 buyer who wanted to operate the 2731 01:50:10.067 --> 01:50:12.067 facility as a fertilizer plant. 2732 01:50:12.067 --> 01:50:13.067 There were a number of interested 2733 01:50:13.067 --> 01:50:15.067 buyers. I think in general most 2734 01:50:15.067 --> 01:50:18.067 of them wanted a way to get around 2735 01:50:18.067 --> 01:50:24.067 acquiring the gypstacks complex. 2736 01:50:24.067 --> 01:50:26.067 What they wanted to 2737 01:50:26.067 --> 01:50:27.067 do was get Mississippi to allow 2738 01:50:27.067 --> 01:50:29.067 underground injections so they would 2739 01:50:29.067 --> 01:50:31.067 have to deal with managing process 2740 01:50:31.067 --> 01:50:34.067 water and wastewater on the surface. 2741 01:50:34.067 --> 01:50:37.000 That was the reason 2742 01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:38.000 that a lot of money went 2743 01:50:38.000 --> 01:50:41.000 in trying to maintain these gypstacks 2744 01:50:41.000 --> 01:50:44.000 in the semi operable mode because 2745 01:50:44.000 --> 01:50:47.000 there is is a buyer 2746 01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:56.067 around the 2747 01:50:56.067 --> 01:50:58.067 corner to take over 2748 01:50:58.067 --> 01:50:59.067 the operation. The problem is it 2749 01:50:59.067 --> 01:51:01.067 only takes one year or two before 2750 01:51:01.067 --> 01:51:02.067 these things start falling apart. 2751 01:51:02.067 --> 01:51:04.067 You really don't have anything of 2752 01:51:04.067 --> 01:51:05.067 value. What I think in hindsight 2753 01:51:05.067 --> 01:51:08.067 was a really smart move was, that 2754 01:51:08.067 --> 01:51:11.067 we did do because there were a 2755 01:51:11.067 --> 01:51:14.067 lot of people involved and not necessarily 2756 01:51:14.067 --> 01:51:20.067 me, they were building in these 2757 01:51:20.067 --> 01:51:21.067 pumping capacities 2758 01:51:21.067 --> 01:51:22.067 and discharge capacities and water 2759 01:51:22.067 --> 01:51:24.067 treatment capacities and the one 2760 01:51:24.067 --> 01:51:26.067 thing that they will with on this 2761 01:51:26.067 --> 01:51:29.067 particular site was Institute treatment. 2762 01:51:29.067 --> 01:51:31.067 Rather than build a new wastewater 2763 01:51:31.067 --> 01:51:35.067 treatment plant or upgrade the existing 2764 01:51:35.067 --> 01:51:36.067 water treatment plant which would've 2765 01:51:36.067 --> 01:51:39.000 been a capital improvement they 2766 01:51:39.000 --> 01:51:42.000 basically added lines to a pond 2767 01:51:42.000 --> 01:51:44.000 or a 2768 01:51:44.000 --> 01:51:46.000 number of the ponds that were at 2769 01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:51.067 the complex and mixed it with [ Indiscernible ] and let the, use 2770 01:51:51.067 --> 01:51:58.067 that as treatment or complete 2771 01:51:58.067 --> 01:52:00.067 neutralization of the treatment 2772 01:52:00.067 --> 01:52:02.067 rather than running it through a 2773 01:52:02.067 --> 01:52:04.067 plan. It is a line process and bring 2774 01:52:04.067 --> 01:52:05.067 the pH level up to 11 and drops 2775 01:52:05.067 --> 01:52:08.067 out of the solution. Then you have 2776 01:52:08.067 --> 01:52:12.067 to aerated for a while so the ammonium 2777 01:52:12.067 --> 01:52:14.067 strips off so you can neutralize 2778 01:52:14.067 --> 01:52:15.067 it and discharge it to the buyer. 2779 01:52:15.067 --> 01:52:18.067 The problem is the ponds would end 2780 01:52:18.067 --> 01:52:21.067 up full of line sludge and you no 2781 01:52:21.067 --> 01:52:22.067 longer had 2782 01:52:22.067 --> 01:52:25.067 these ponds as holding capacity. 2783 01:52:25.067 --> 01:52:31.067 The whole thing down there is 2784 01:52:31.067 --> 01:52:32.067 water management. You have a number 2785 01:52:32.067 --> 01:52:34.067 of buckets and unfortunately what 2786 01:52:34.067 --> 01:52:36.067 you have is an awful lot of water 2787 01:52:36.067 --> 01:52:37.000 falling down from the sky filling 2788 01:52:37.000 --> 01:52:39.000 up your buckets with fresh water 2789 01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:42.000 that is contaminated once it hits 2790 01:52:42.000 --> 01:52:44.000 that. In the end 2791 01:52:44.000 --> 01:52:45.000 it was increasing the discharge 2792 01:52:45.000 --> 01:52:47.000 capacity and treatment capacity 2793 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:50.000 so you could move a lot of water 2794 01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:59.000 around this facility and then 2795 01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:00.000 get to the point where we had the 2796 01:53:00.000 --> 01:53:01.000 funding and the commitment to reduce 2797 01:53:01.000 --> 01:53:03.000 the footprint. Once the footprint 2798 01:53:03.000 --> 01:53:05.000 is reduced you have a lot more treatments 2799 01:53:05.000 --> 01:53:07.000 at hand but you don't have the option 2800 01:53:07.000 --> 01:53:09.000 of having an operable just stack 2801 01:53:09.000 --> 01:53:10.000 anymore. You have closed it. I don't 2802 01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:13.000 know if that answers your question 2803 01:53:13.000 --> 01:53:24.000 but the reels and see 2804 01:53:24.000 --> 01:53:26.000 was trying to find a buyer to take 2805 01:53:26.000 --> 01:53:27.000 over the operation and the second 2806 01:53:27.000 --> 01:53:29.000 one was having the flexibility to 2807 01:53:29.000 --> 01:53:30.000 move water around in the event that 2808 01:53:30.000 --> 01:53:31.000 mother nature turned against you 2809 01:53:31.000 --> 01:53:32.000 which you did. 2810 01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:33.000 >> Building in that capacity into 2811 01:53:33.000 --> 01:53:35.000 your planning. Lily you covered 2812 01:53:35.000 --> 01:53:36.934 a number of specific issues. Can 2813 01:53:36.934 --> 01:53:37.934 you recap some of these key points 2814 01:53:37.934 --> 01:53:40.934 for resiliency planning? 2815 01:53:40.934 --> 01:53:43.934 >> Sure, happy too. I 2816 01:53:43.934 --> 01:53:46.934 would say 2817 01:53:46.934 --> 01:53:50.000 be a little bit pessimistic 2818 01:53:50.000 --> 01:53:55.000 to assume that the world 2819 01:53:55.000 --> 01:53:57.000 you are in my shift a little bit 2820 01:53:57.000 --> 01:54:02.000 if you're looking at the long-term 2821 01:54:02.000 --> 01:54:04.000 response at a mine site. The conditions 2822 01:54:04.000 --> 01:54:05.000 change over time. We have seen a 2823 01:54:05.000 --> 01:54:08.000 higher frequency of flaws and large-scale 2824 01:54:08.000 --> 01:54:10.000 fires and I think that 2825 01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:12.000 the assumption that something like 2826 01:54:12.000 --> 01:54:14.000 this might happen once every 10 2827 01:54:14.000 --> 01:54:17.000 years we have had to shift our thinking 2828 01:54:17.000 --> 01:54:19.000 and except that every couple 2829 01:54:19.000 --> 01:54:22.000 of years we have either a really 2830 01:54:22.000 --> 01:54:25.000 large scale flood 2831 01:54:25.000 --> 01:54:28.000 event or a fire 2832 01:54:28.000 --> 01:54:31.000 of some type and whether it 2833 01:54:31.000 --> 01:54:34.000 is really small or the 2834 01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:39.934 scale of the example from the 2835 01:54:39.934 --> 01:54:42.934 Carr Fire and you have to use everyone 2836 01:54:42.934 --> 01:54:44.934 of these example 2837 01:54:44.934 --> 01:54:45.934 2 feet into planning for the next 2838 01:54:45.934 --> 01:54:49.000 one. I think the biggest lesson 2839 01:54:49.000 --> 01:54:51.000 is to assume 2840 01:54:51.000 --> 01:54:54.000 that the worst case or some of the 2841 01:54:54.000 --> 01:54:57.000 worst things can happen and that 2842 01:54:57.000 --> 01:55:02.000 they will and 2843 01:55:02.000 --> 01:55:04.000 to just take that as an opportunity 2844 01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:06.000 to create more that the disease 2845 01:55:06.000 --> 01:55:10.000 in your system which come at a cost. It 2846 01:55:10.000 --> 01:55:13.000 is by definition and inefficiency 2847 01:55:13.000 --> 01:55:16.000 but the inefficiencies and upping 2848 01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:18.000 your lifeline and I 2849 01:55:18.000 --> 01:55:20.000 didn't have a lot of time to get 2850 01:55:20.000 --> 01:55:23.000 into it but one thing about the 2851 01:55:23.000 --> 01:55:26.000 remedy at iron mountain 2852 01:55:26.000 --> 01:55:28.000 mine 2853 01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:29.000 is there is a ton of redundancy 2854 01:55:29.000 --> 01:55:31.000 built in and their components of 2855 01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:34.000 the site that have almost completely 2856 01:55:34.000 --> 01:55:36.934 near systems in the event there 2857 01:55:36.934 --> 01:55:38.934 is a failure in just one 2858 01:55:38.934 --> 01:55:39.934 piece of one of those systems. 2859 01:55:39.934 --> 01:55:42.934 I think building in redundancy and 2860 01:55:42.934 --> 01:55:45.934 assuming that 2861 01:55:45.934 --> 01:55:49.000 severe emergencies will happen 2862 01:55:49.000 --> 01:55:52.000 is a great place to start. 2863 01:55:52.000 --> 01:55:57.000 >> Thank you Lily. Christoph. 2864 01:55:57.000 --> 01:56:00.000 In considering the bulkhead design 2865 01:56:00.000 --> 01:56:03.000 for long-term management of 2866 01:56:03.000 --> 01:56:05.000 mine influence water. Is there 2867 01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:07.000 things that we should consider related 2868 01:56:07.000 --> 01:56:09.000 to long-term resiliency in these 2869 01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:12.000 bulkhead designs? 2870 01:56:12.000 --> 01:56:15.000 >> The bucket 2871 01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:21.000 design is 2872 01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:23.000 long-term. You assumed that once 2873 01:56:23.000 --> 01:56:25.000 you've got the water sealed in the 2874 01:56:25.000 --> 01:56:27.000 amount that you never have to drain 2875 01:56:27.000 --> 01:56:29.000 it again. That is all is going to 2876 01:56:29.000 --> 01:56:31.000 be. You just over design things 2877 01:56:31.000 --> 01:56:34.000 to give them a very long service 2878 01:56:34.000 --> 01:56:36.067 life. Your spectrum 2879 01:56:36.067 --> 01:56:39.000 expects some additional adjustments 2880 01:56:39.000 --> 01:56:42.000 as needed and designed the maximal 2881 01:56:42.000 --> 01:56:44.000 head that you 2882 01:56:44.000 --> 01:56:47.000 can expect to see whether it is 2883 01:56:47.000 --> 01:56:51.067 in one, 54 100 years. In regard 2884 01:56:51.067 --> 01:56:54.067 to resiliency 2885 01:56:54.067 --> 01:56:57.067 if there are specific areas that 2886 01:56:57.067 --> 01:56:59.067 seem to be 2887 01:56:59.067 --> 01:57:01.067 influencing the mine pool and water 2888 01:57:01.067 --> 01:57:04.067 that comes in there may be some 2889 01:57:04.067 --> 01:57:07.067 run on or 2890 01:57:07.067 --> 01:57:08.067 run out controls to do the 2891 01:57:08.067 --> 01:57:09.067 grading to keep the water on there. 2892 01:57:09.067 --> 01:57:10.067 Overall underground you're pretty 2893 01:57:10.067 --> 01:57:13.067 resilient. 2894 01:57:13.067 --> 01:57:19.067 >> Definitely. 2895 01:57:19.067 --> 01:57:20.067 And finally Terri. Can you think 2896 01:57:20.067 --> 01:57:22.067 of any real Lindsay consideration 2897 01:57:22.067 --> 01:57:24.067 for designing response actions related 2898 01:57:24.067 --> 01:57:26.067 to legacy uranium sites? 2899 01:57:26.067 --> 01:57:28.067 >> That is one of the reasons I 2900 01:57:28.067 --> 01:57:30.067 wanted to bring in the tribal aspects 2901 01:57:30.067 --> 01:57:33.067 because that is really going to 2902 01:57:33.067 --> 01:57:36.067 be a primary determinant for 2903 01:57:36.067 --> 01:57:38.000 making sure that we do have 2904 01:57:38.000 --> 01:57:43.000 not only the resiliency but also 2905 01:57:43.000 --> 01:57:46.000 ability to respect what is going 2906 01:57:46.000 --> 01:57:49.067 on there and yet still keep an eye 2907 01:57:49.067 --> 01:57:51.067 out what 2908 01:57:51.067 --> 01:57:54.067 could potentially happen in the 2909 01:57:54.067 --> 01:57:55.067 future. When you multiply that with 2910 01:57:55.067 --> 01:57:56.067 large-scale sites it will be challenging 2911 01:57:56.067 --> 01:57:59.067 to do. 2912 01:57:59.067 --> 01:58:02.067 >> All right. Thank you. We 2913 01:58:02.067 --> 01:58:05.067 are right at our 2914 01:58:05.067 --> 01:58:07.067 3:00 2915 01:58:07.067 --> 01:58:10.067 time period. Thank you for your 2916 01:58:10.067 --> 01:58:11.100 speakers for 2917 01:58:11.100 --> 01:58:13.801 your great work in addressing these 2918 01:58:13.801 --> 01:58:15.067 comments. 2919 01:58:15.067 --> 01:58:26.067 >> 2920 01:58:26.067 --> 01:58:27.067 Thank you so very much to him. I 2921 01:58:27.067 --> 01:58:29.067 will walk through very quickly a 2922 01:58:29.067 --> 01:58:30.067 few final reminders before we officially 2923 01:58:30.067 --> 01:58:32.067 close out today's session. As noted 2924 01:58:32.067 --> 01:58:33.067 this is a multi-part series. We 2925 01:58:33.067 --> 01:58:35.067 already completed session one last 2926 01:58:35.067 --> 01:58:37.000 week. We have just done session 2927 01:58:37.000 --> 01:58:38.000 2 and will carry on with the series 2928 01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:40.000 next Wednesday is on October 16th 2929 01:58:40.000 --> 01:58:41.000 when we work on session 3. The focus 2930 01:58:41.000 --> 01:58:43.000 will be innovative technologies 2931 01:58:43.000 --> 01:58:45.000 and strategies. We hope your able 2932 01:58:45.000 --> 01:58:46.000 to join us for the third session 2933 01:58:46.000 --> 01:58:49.067 in the series. All will be recorded 2934 01:58:49.067 --> 01:58:58.067 and archived 2935 01:58:58.067 --> 01:59:00.067 and you can already 2936 01:59:00.067 --> 01:59:02.067 find the URL for session number 2937 01:59:02.067 --> 01:59:03.067 one. If you would like to learn 2938 01:59:03.067 --> 01:59:04.067 about related webinars Christoph 2939 01:59:04.067 --> 01:59:05.067 mentioned another one that we're 2940 01:59:05.067 --> 01:59:08.067 hosting later this month. I encourage 2941 01:59:08.067 --> 01:59:09.067 you to sign up or find us on tech 2942 01:59:09.067 --> 01:59:11.067 direct which goes out on the first 2943 01:59:11.067 --> 01:59:12.067 of each month. Will find copies 2944 01:59:12.067 --> 01:59:14.067 of the material on the resources 2945 01:59:14.067 --> 01:59:17.067 page. You saw the page when you 2946 01:59:17.067 --> 01:59:23.067 checked in today. 2947 01:59:23.067 --> 01:59:24.067 You can click 2948 01:59:24.067 --> 01:59:26.067 resources and download the text. 2949 01:59:26.067 --> 01:59:27.067 You can also find information on 2950 01:59:27.067 --> 01:59:29.067 the middle right of your screen. 2951 01:59:29.067 --> 01:59:32.067 If you're looking for information 2952 01:59:32.067 --> 01:59:35.067 on the speakers you can find it 2953 01:59:35.067 --> 01:59:37.000 on our 2954 01:59:37.000 --> 01:59:42.000 homepage. A few points about the 2955 01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:43.000 feedback form. If you're looking 2956 01:59:43.000 --> 01:59:46.000 for participation certificate you 2957 01:59:46.000 --> 01:59:47.000 will get one if you complete 2958 01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:49.067 the online feedback form. Check 2959 01:59:49.067 --> 01:59:52.067 the box that you were here for the 2960 01:59:52.067 --> 01:59:55.067 entire session or play the entire 2961 01:59:55.067 --> 01:59:57.067 archived. As long 2962 01:59:57.067 --> 02:00:00.067 as you submit your feedback you 2963 02:00:00.067 --> 02:00:01.067 will get access to it 2964 02:00:01.067 --> 02:00:03.067 certificate that you can print 2965 02:00:03.067 --> 02:00:05.067 or save for your own records. Share 2966 02:00:05.067 --> 02:00:07.067 the line with multiple people at 2967 02:00:07.067 --> 02:00:10.067 your location each person can fill 2968 02:00:10.067 --> 02:00:13.067 out the 2969 02:00:13.067 --> 02:00:15.067 feedback form even if they did 2970 02:00:15.067 --> 02:00:18.067 not register. If you are in a conference 2971 02:00:18.067 --> 02:00:21.067 room together get 2972 02:00:21.067 --> 02:00:22.067 the links to 2973 02:00:22.067 --> 02:00:24.067 the feedback form on the right side 2974 02:00:24.067 --> 02:00:25.067 of the screen and share that with 2975 02:00:25.067 --> 02:00:27.067 individuals that joined you from 2976 02:00:27.067 --> 02:00:29.067 your particular room. I do get questions 2977 02:00:29.067 --> 02:00:30.067 about CE use. We don't offer those 2978 02:00:30.067 --> 02:00:33.067 particular things. If you're looking 2979 02:00:33.067 --> 02:00:45.000 to earn 2980 02:00:45.000 --> 02:00:46.000 credit hours for CLP is we have 2981 02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:48.067 included information that you can 2982 02:00:48.067 --> 02:00:50.067 copy and paste into the CLP form. 2983 02:00:50.067 --> 02:00:51.067 Most details that you need is already 2984 02:00:51.067 --> 02:00:53.067 available on the seminar homepage 2985 02:00:53.067 --> 02:00:54.067 but you can request up to 1.5 hours 2986 02:00:54.067 --> 02:00:56.067 for this particular session through 2987 02:00:56.067 --> 02:00:57.067 your CLP request. With that I will 2988 02:00:57.067 --> 02:00:58.067 remind everybody that our session 2989 02:00:58.067 --> 02:01:00.067 was recorded. You will automatically 2990 02:01:00.067 --> 02:01:02.067 get an email as soon as the archive 2991 02:01:02.067 --> 02:01:04.067 is ready in approximately one week. 2992 02:01:04.067 --> 02:01:06.067 We hope that you will find all of 2993 02:01:06.067 --> 02:01:07.067 you next week when we carry on the 2994 02:01:07.067 --> 02:01:09.067 series with session number three. 2995 02:01:09.067 --> 02:01:12.067 Thank you for taking time of your 2996 02:01:12.067 --> 02:01:18.067 day for joining us. 2997 02:01:18.067 --> 02:01:19.067 Thank 2998 02:01:19.067 --> 02:01:21.067 you to the speakers and organizers 2999 02:01:21.067 --> 02:01:23.067 that took time out of the schedules 3000 02:01:23.067 --> 02:01:24.067 to share their expertise and time 3001 02:01:24.067 --> 02:01:25.067 with us. This is a formal conclusion 3002 02:01:25.067 --> 02:01:30.067 for today's live broadcast.